The building block

SpeedRacer · Postby **SpeedRacer** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:14

^^ Agreed. Don't ask me why its a love hate, I offer my opinion he doesn't listen and then shit breaks. I guess my problem is I just feel like nobody values my opinion and thinks I don't know what I'm talking about. Least thats the vibe I get.

StormsOtherSide · Postby **StormsOtherSide** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:14

I think you are on the right track Eric. I would definently try the Synapes BOV on your setup. It makes total sense, especially with a front mount intercooler application. There is 3-4x the volume of air vs what was there before... so you will have to increase the response and the volume of the BOV.

I look at it this way... if I had a 5 gallon air tank with a 1/2" valve, I know it will relieve x amount of pressure in x amount of seconds before I closed it. If I had the exact same valve on a 20 gallon tank, I open and closed the valve the same amount of time as the 5 gallon tank, the extra pressure / volume is going to go somewhere other than my valve. So your compressor becomes a relief and spins backwards because the velocity and volume of the air is under enough pressure to overcome your compressor vains and spin it backwards. Yes this is an Oh No moment! It would be a matter of time before you snap a blade and send it down the motor.

I work on centrifigal compressors exactly like the turbos on our cars at work (just 100x bigger) and we have to watch out for the same stuff. If one of those puppies go, we need to make a new room for it to live in. They EXPLODE!

If you ever need a hand, I have said in the past... let me know man. Always willing to help.

Good luck!

Rich · Postby **Rich** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:14

SpeedRacer wrote:^^ Agreed. Don't ask me why its a love hate, I offer my opinion he doesn't listen and then shit breaks. I guess my problem is I just feel like nobody values my opinion and thinks I don't know what I'm talking about. Least thats the vibe I get.

I've taken your advice plenty of times. The point is not that your opinion isn't valued; it's that in this case there is strong evidence that your opinion may be wrong. I've heard Eric's motor and there's no doubt he's getting compressor surge. You're thinking why would he have it and you don't? The simple answer is that you both have 2 different setups. His turbo is different, his intake tract is different, and because these motors are so tempermental, just being 2 different cars is enough for them to act differently.

The bottom line is that you're both a little stubborn. Josh you definitely know what you're talking about, and your car proves it. Eric has been through enough with his car to know when it's acting strange. So with both of you combined working on a problem, there's no reason you two can't figure it out together.

firestoned · Postby **firestoned** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:14

I wasnt going to delve into this, but I cant help myself...

First, this website has not been an "enthusiasts" web site for quite a while now, all it is is a local social network. There is hardly ever any posts regarding true technical information that could be helpful to anybody.

Second, I believe the animosity falls more on my side, because I truly cant stand non-informative b.s. posts, like most of Josh's replies in this thread. They simply serve no purpose, and have no rhyme or reason;

"dont do synapse come on seriously? yuck." - any technobabble behind that?? sounds like you are biased

"Flutter is normal take a video and post it. Mine under low boost sounds like an HKS almost. If anything test a diff BOV" - Flutter is not normal, as stated in my posts in this thread, and am I or am I not trying a different bov??

"Well.... Jordan from CPE was in my car at SEMA and didn't say shit :P " - again, worthless post, non informative, waste of time

"Yeah guys youtube Synapse BOV Mazdaspeed HP gain... 20whp! FTW... lmfao" - funny, I thought dynos were a pretty proven track to take when comparing parts

"point is Synapse is a joke... but whatever havent' listened to me yet why start now? " - again, you have no techno information to back up your ill remarks. definitely a biased comment

"I offer my opinion he doesn't listen and then shit breaks. I guess my problem is I just feel like nobody values my opinion and thinks I don't know what I'm talking about. Least thats the vibe I get. " - Your opinions may be sometimes valid, but again, they have no evidence or reason behind them.

"I look at it this way... if I had a 5 gallon air tank with a 1/2" valve, I know it will relieve x amount of pressure in x amount of seconds before I closed it. If I had the exact same valve on a 20 gallon tank, I open and closed the valve the same amount of time as the 5 gallon tank, the extra pressure / volume is going to go somewhere other than my valve. So your compressor becomes a relief and spins backwards because the velocity and volume of the air is under enough pressure to overcome your compressor vains and spin it backwards. Yes this is an Oh No moment! It would be a matter of time before you snap a blade and send it down the motor.

I work on centrifigal compressors exactly like the turbos on our cars at work (just 100x bigger) and we have to watch out for the same stuff. If one of those puppies go, we need to make a new room for it to live in. They EXPLODE!"

Josh, see how the above post has some information leading to the reply? That is helpful, and if you worded your posts a little more like this, or had some technical advice to go along, Im sure I and others would take you more seriously..but, until they do, I simply mow over your posts...

Thanks for the offer to help, Chris...

" The point is not that your opinion isn't valued; it's that in this case there is strong evidence that your opinion may be wrong. I've heard Eric's motor and there's no doubt he's getting compressor surge. You're thinking why would he have it and you don't?" - exactly, Rich, thank you... except he does have compressor surge, and so do most..but will Josh ever admit he may be wrong?

My whole point in this topic is, most people have compressor surge to some extent, which, by definition is BAD. You may think your setup is fine and dandy, and that "flutter" as you call it is normal...but I am the one researching actual facts about the topic, learning how to make the car better, all the while you lean back and read your forum bs, and give a biased opinion. Most of my posts in this thread are backed up by either research or factual information regarding the topic, and my whole point of posting that is so that other "enthusiasts" (the 2 or 3 we have) may learn something like I did.

Bottom line, Josh...dont bash my attempt to understand my car. I havent seen you post ANY other options I could have, or any help or advice at all.. and that, after all, is what we are here for..

<END RANT

SpeedRacer · Postby **SpeedRacer** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:14

Because you don't ask my advice Eric. You forgot my post about PTP and being right on that. I don't want to spend 30 minutes typing out a long thing on why this is the way it is. If you want my advice call me. I think I know what I'm talking about just a little bit.

Sorry I don't cross post and quote and link and everything from different sites. I'm lazy in that regard because again you aren't asking for my help. as for your comment on synapse are you serious? You seriously believe 20whp gain? if so then goodluck with your car. Alternative is HKS which almost all big turbo / built speeds are running. Don't see why your car is more special than those cars.... I hope Synapse works for you and its not another I told you so moment.

I'm not Brendan i'm not gonna write a full page document on how something works and yada yada. Don't have the patience or time to do that. If you want my opinion call me.

Postby **RX-7 Chris** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:14

Josh come on, it is his car and he can do with it as he wants.

SpeedRacer · Postby **SpeedRacer** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:14

Obviously he can and will. I offer my opinion on it though thats all.

firestoned · Postby **firestoned** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:14

Josh, I never said I expect 20whp gain, or believe it for that matter. I am not concerned about making ANY extra whp, I just want to rid my car of compressor surge.

I will see how it works tomorrow

Postby **RX-7 Chris** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:14

Could you do a write up on your findings?

tbot · Postby **tbot** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:14

SpeedRacer wrote:Obviously he can and will. I offer my opinion on it though thats all.

Josh, I think this statement needs to be recognized as what it is by many people. Its just an "opinion" which is the easiest belief of anyone to change. Meaning, that I think you need to stop letting your feathers get ruffled when someone else doesn't have the same opinion and decides to go a different route than what you would have with any part, setup, technical decision for a car. Also, this means anyone else should realize that they don't need to get butt hurt because u gave your opinion on why they shouldn't go a certain route they're taking on their car/whatever else.

All in all, I agree with others, if your "opinion" is just that and is nothing else, i.e. no facts based behind it, then don't post if its going to be derogatory or negative as in some of the posts you've made already even in this thread. If ur statement isn't "opinion" then do a quick google search and post up a link backing whatever statement so that it isn't assumed as just another opinion from you and it is some fact. It really isn't that hard to post up a link even if it doesn't have the nice "click here for lazy ppl" effect.

So on both parties here and in the future, understand that opinions can and will change and therefore should be taken with a grain of salt and not cause ruffled feathers on either side.

firestoned · Postby **firestoned** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:14

OK, kids....

Here is what is going on. I was going to do a big review/write-up, but not too many people seem to be concerned about compressor surge, so I will just stick with installation and my impressions of the Synapse BOV.

First, installation of the Synapse requires you to tap into the wastegate hose on the back of the turbo, which was not the easiest to do. I found if you use long needle nose pliers to remove the clamps, you can remove the hose entirely, and then work on tee'ing into it. The BOV itself has 3 ports on it: Port A & B need to be connected to vacuum/boost, and port c is the boost only that you teed into off the wastegate.

Second, fitment is MUCH better with the Synapse compared to the tall bulky Turbosmart. Before, I had literally 1/8" clearance between the intercooler piping and the top of the BOV, now I have 2" +. Granted, the Synapse is bulky as well, but length-wise, not heighth.

I took note of my vacuum pressure before I installed the Synapse, and I was at 17lbs vacuum.. with the turbo still breaking in, Im hitting 12-13psi boost. As soon as I started the car, the vacuum read between 18-19, and after a short drive, I hit 14 psi for the first time on the new turbo, WITHOUT CHANGING BOOST LEVELS.

As far as compressor surge/flutter, IT IS 100% COMPLETELY GONE, and with it recirculating, the bov reacts very fast, much faster than the Turbosmart. The sound is similar to a recirculating BOV, without the flutter.

In conclusion to this whole ordeal and conflicting interests, I would 100% reccomend the Synapse BOV, as it totally clears the flutter/surge, which is healthier for our cars than running the typical diaphram style BOV, which create surge..

StormsOtherSide · Postby **StormsOtherSide** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:14

Sweet man! Good to hear that BOV worked for ya! It always feels good when something works out after all of the time and effort put in to make it run right.

Congrats.

mOOsE · Postby **mOOsE** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:14

firestoned wrote:As far as compressor surge/flutter, IT IS 100% COMPLETELY GONE, and with it recirculating, the bov reacts very fast, much faster than the Turbosmart. The sound is similar to a recirculating BOV, without the flutter.

In conclusion to this whole ordeal and conflicting interests, I would 100% reccomend the Synapse BOV, as it totally clears the flutter/surge, which is healthier for our cars than running the typical diaphram style BOV, which create surge..

awesome. Glad its coming together. This answers some questions I had about the synapse bov. Thanks

Speed6Geek · Postby **Speed6Geek** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:14

Grats Eric! Glad to hear it's working well. I feel bad that you're having such trials and tribulations with the car, but you're definitely making it easier on the rest of us - 'specially us noob MS6 owners that wanna mod the ride.

Rich · Postby **Rich** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:14

Eric, I want some video! Mainly because I don't wanna drive back up there to hear it

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