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speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Wed May 14, 2014 9:14

That could be, lol.

I was thinking though, if the battery is the weak point, then I'm wondering if the ignition system isn't firing enough to start it either.

FDEEZ · Postby **FDEEZ** » Wed May 14, 2014 9:14

What's the condition of your water temp sensor? Have you tried adjusting the temp settings as listed in post #1021?

lOOkatme · Postby **lOOkatme** » Wed May 14, 2014 9:14

I was playing with Oscars idle at the meet. I tried running a little negative injector lag, and it leaned out his idle with 850cc primaries on the powerfc. I know how to lean your out now, way back we tried injector lag, but not negative injector lag to lean out the idle with the powerfc.

I know we can lean out the idle. A couple of things that could be wrong that I didn't really think about, could it be possible that some of your inputs into the ecu are not functioning right or are messed up? For instance your air temp or water temp signals are messed up and reading open, and the ecu is confused and dumps fuel in, or runs super lean, it would also retard or advance your timing a ton as well. This would throw any ECU off when you go to start it.

I do think it could be a grounding issue......the scary thing is the engine got progressively worse with time.........I remember seeing your knock readings on a drive and they were something like 200 cruising.....I asked about it and you said that your engine was noisy or had high knock......I am questioning myself.....what if your engine isn't noisy and it really was knock. When I tuned my car I think the highest I got was 60 in a roll on state but the knock went back to a low number, Jesse's car had knock that went up to 30 and went back down quickly....I didn't see anything on either of our maps where I was like....damn that is bad. 200+ scares me.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Sat May 17, 2014 9:14

FDEEZ wrote:What's the condition of your water temp sensor? Have you tried adjusting the temp settings as listed in post #1021?

It should be in good condition. I'm trying to remember where on the engine that's located. On the rear iron with the little spade connector? I haven't tried adjusting those temp settings, but it shouldn't matter because we tried three different ECUs Saturday, including a stock one. If it's just on the PFC, then I'll probably try that.

lOOkatme wrote:I was playing with Oscars idle at the meet. I tried running a little negative injector lag, and it leaned out his idle with 850cc primaries on the powerfc. I know how to lean your out now, way back we tried injector lag, but not negative injector lag to lean out the idle with the powerfc.

Does this just apply to the PFC or do you think you could figure it out on the Adaptronic too? Actually, I'm not sure if it is or will be applicable on there, because we might not have that problem on that ECU.

BTW, Oscar texted me a couple days ago and said he sold his car lol.

lOOkatme wrote:I know we can lean out the idle. A couple of things that could be wrong that I didn't really think about, could it be possible that some of your inputs into the ecu are not functioning right or are messed up? For instance your air temp or water temp signals are messed up and reading open, and the ecu is confused and dumps fuel in, or runs super lean, it would also retard or advance your timing a ton as well. This would throw any ECU off when you go to start it.

That's always possible, but I'm not sure how to test it or which ones it could be. I could try to borrow Frankenstein from Matt (Alpha) and see what it indicates. However, I think the Adaptronic does have some of those kinds of features in it, where it tells you if sensors are working. There are lights on the outside, similar to Frankenstein, that blink as indicators. I'll have to ask Andy again what they mean or maybe it's in the manual. I have the fast reacting temp sensor installed, but it hadn't given me any problems before. The water temp sensor I'm not sure. I'll take a look at it. Although, why would it fire then with oil in the housings? Wouldn't it still not fire?

lOOkatme wrote:I do think it could be a grounding issue......the scary thing is the engine got progressively worse with time.........I remember seeing your knock readings on a drive and they were something like 200 cruising.....I asked about it and you said that your engine was noisy or had high knock......I am questioning myself.....what if your engine isn't noisy and it really was knock. When I tuned my car I think the highest I got was 60 in a roll on state but the knock went back to a low number, Jesse's car had knock that went up to 30 and went back down quickly....I didn't see anything on either of our maps where I was like....damn that is bad. 200+ scares me.

Yeah that's why I'm worried, because it got worse. But I'm wondering if it's the same issue or a separate one causing it to not start. Remember I have Delrin engine mounts, so that's going to cause a really high reading due to how sensitive our knock sensors are. The problem is it could be masking legitimate knock. Another cool thing about the Adaptronic, you can listen to knock with headphones. Which might be something to try in the future. 200+ scares me too, but I've never had reason to trust the knock sensor lol.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:14

Andy and Zico came over Saturday to help troubleshoot the car. It still hasn't started but we've discovered some things. And we may or may not have gotten closer to figuring it out lol.

I got a brand new Optima Yellow Top and it still sounded like a bad battery when trying to start. Since it seems like a wiring issue, I thought back to the last thing I did before it stopped wanting to start. I had upgraded the grounding with the buss bars and a 4ga cable from the battery to the transmission, but I already took those out. So I went to the mod before that and I believe I was messing with the gauges, so I pulled the gauge cluster, and it seemed to help the car crank faster occasionally, but that was it.

I checked for spark after that, by pulling all the wires and plugs, and then putting the plugs in the end of the wires and holding them with pliers next to something grounded, and visually checking for spark. We noticed the leading plugs didn't have as strong or as big of spark as the trailing plugs, so we thought maybe that might be the problem since the leading coil does most of the work. However, after checking on RCC, I've been told that since the leading coil supplies spark to two plugs and the trailing coils each supply to just one plug, that that's the reason the spark is weaker on the leading plugs. I swapped out the leading coil, plug wires, and coil harness, with the ones from Zico's car, in increments to see if it ever got better, but it did not.

Jesse is pretty sure the engine is toast. I hope it's not that but I fear it might be. I was planning on getting a rotary specific compression tester to test both rotors at the same time, but I might put that money towards a rebuild kit.

VRx8 · Postby **VRx8** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:14

Why don't you get some IGN-1A and go Direct Fire! Get rid of the waste spark system. Also I know you have ALS/E&J seals. Have you ran the engine lean at boost before? When you guys started it last time did it sound smooth ?

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:14

I actually have those coils and I'm making the mount for them right now to mount them in the stock location. Then I have to install the harness for them and put the Adaptronic in since the harness is set up for that ECU. I wanted to get the car running before doing the coils because if I do the coils and other upgrades (fuel, etc), and the car still doesn't run, I won't know if it's because of the upgrades or because of a previous problem. I don't believe I've run lean before. It sounds pretty smooth when it's running after we tow start it. But that's just it...it tow starts, and it starts when we put oil in the housings. That doesn't bode well lol.

VRx8 · Postby **VRx8** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:14

Then I think at this point. Before you do anything else, do a compression test before you waste time trying other things.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:14

I want to do a compression test but I want to get the tester that is rotary specific that does both rotors at the same time. It's over $600 lol.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:14

Zico came over Saturday and we pulled the car and started it, but I think the map that's on the computer now was keeping it from running on it's own because it actually idled alright before, and this time I had to keep fluttering the throttle to keep it running. We got it inside the garage again and it died at around 140 degrees water temp. We dumped some gear oil in and it fired right up, then died when the gear oil ran out. We tried to do a compression test just for shits and giggles but the tester won't hold pressure, and it didn't look too promising with each pulse anyway.

Soooooo...I started pulling the engine Sunday night and it's almost ready to come out. I'm going to try to finish getting it ready tonight, and pull it either tonight or tomorrow night hopefully. I'm trying to decide if I want to get the engine bay painted professionally while it's out or just rock with it the way it is for now until the next rebuild in a year or two LOL. I have other upgrades I want to do also but I may wait until winter with those and just enjoy the car the rest of the summer.

millertime · Postby **millertime** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:14

I'll be down your way Saturday. I can head out early if you want a hand.

lOOkatme · Postby **lOOkatme** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:14

I am in town as well. Let me know when you rebuild the engine. Always willing to learn. I also want to see what this thing looks like....and possibly causes of why its doing what it is doing.

millertime · Postby **millertime** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:14

lOOkatme wrote:I am in town as well. Let me know when you rebuild the engine. Always willing to learn. I also want to see what this thing looks like....and possibly causes of why its doing what it is doing.

It's not too bad. I've done mine. Just gotta make sure you clean and spec the motor out right.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:14

millertime wrote:I'll be down your way Saturday. I can head out early if you want a hand.

I'm volunteering at SBR Motorsports for their shifter kart race on Saturday. I'll probably pull it apart Sunday.

lOOkatme wrote:I am in town as well. Let me know when you rebuild the engine. Always willing to learn. I also want to see what this thing looks like....and possibly causes of why its doing what it is doing.

Will do! I'll take it apart this weekend, but I'll be waiting on rebuild parts, so it'll be a week or two til I rebuild.

millertime wrote:It's not too bad. I've done mine. Just gotta make sure you clean and spec the motor out right.

I think he's saying he wants to see what this specific engine looks like on the inside. He was at the house during the last rebuild lol.

millertime · Postby **millertime** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:14

I gotcha, I keep my trashed rotor and housing in the car to show curious people. Always cool to show them what kind of damage those stupid apex seals can do.

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