Political rant thread

[erod550]

I disagree that the 2nd amendment mean unrestricted access to any kind of firearm you may want. We already have limits on what kind of arms you can own. You can't own a tank. You can't own an RPG, at least your average person on the street can't go buy one. I don't know what the availability is with special permits or what have you. But we already have restrictions on the 2nd amendment.

Other amendments have also been ruled that the government can place reasonable limits on them. Take the first amendment. You have freedom of religion but not if your religion calls for human sacrifice. You have the right to free speech but you can still be charged with inciting riots or be charged with libel or slander.

[mOOsE]

Im curious if you felt all handguns should have been banned after Virginia tech?

[Huzer]

Other amendments have also been ruled that the government can place reasonable limits on them..

This, why are people so worked up about the 2nd, and have readily accepted limitations on other amendments/Constitution/civil liberties? What's the difference?

[chromal]

Im curious if you felt all handguns should have been banned after Virginia tech?

The thought hadn't occurred to me.

I was freshman a Penn State's main campus when a 19-year-old townie woman (kid who grew up in State College, PA, bubble world in the shadow of the university) who was a member of the regional national guard kind of snapped. She crawled into a shrub overlooking the quad in front of the student union building. She had a scoped Mauser rifle, and after setting a tarp and preparing the rifle, opened fire a little after dawn as students filled the area before first period classes. When reloading, someone very brave jumped in there and tackled her, at which point she pulled a knife. He managed to subdue her, and it stopped there.

Five hit-- one dead (130ft down range), one injured (300ft down range). Three more reported finding that their textbooks in their backpacks had stopped rounds... o_O It was pretty shocking for all of us.

I guess my point is, you don't need a handgun to wreak havok. People who are capable of strategic thinking will find a way.

Most gun-related deaths in the US are suicides. 60,000 a year?

[erod550]

Im curious if you felt all handguns should have been banned after Virginia tech?

No. I'm sure you think I'm all for knee jerk bannings of everything after someone misuses it. I'm not. And I'm not going to keep repeating myself as to the reasons I believe the types of weapons being discussed don't need to be legal.

[mOOsE]

No. I'm sure you think I'm all for knee jerk bannings of everything after someone misuses it. I'm not. And I'm not going to keep repeating myself as to the reasons I believe the types of weapons being discussed don't need to be legal.

in the spirit of keeping things going lol...


Fair enough. You don't have to. But because you don't like something doesn't mean it should be taken away from other law abiding folk

[erod550]

But "not liking" something isn't the issue here. If that was the case then I'd be trying to make a law against ricing out Hondas, or against further production of the FJ Cruiser. The issue is whether it is in the public's safety interests to allow certain types of weapons to be available for public sale.

And we don't have to "keep things going" just to keep beating a dead horse, lol. If we have nothing new to add to the discussion we can either let it die or start on a new topic.

[erod550]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/09/us/south-dakota-gun-law-classrooms.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

What do you guys think about guns in classrooms? Do we really trust that no kid is ever going to try to get the teacher's gun, even if it's just out of curiosity? Or that even in the outside chance that there is a shooting, that the teacher will handle the gun responsibly and not cause more harm by shooting children or other staff in a panic?

I'd be ok with trained, armed security personnel in schools if they want to go that route. But allowing teachers to carry seems irresponsible to me and is raising the risk of an accident exponentially while still not guaranteeing that it would even be helpful in the case of a mass shooting.

[kingtut]

Suggestion: Shall we make this thread more of a "what grinds my gears [politically]" type thing?

Fact is, Erod-- you are a super leftist. I literally disagree with everything you say, period. Moose has attempted to crack your shell using logic; but to his demise. By now (I'm assuming) he, like myself, has accepted that your just plain nutty...un-crackable. Same goes with Justin, I'm not even going to try.

As much as I'd like to converse using reason, it just isn't going to change the way you think. As sad as that is, its reality. Granted, people think differently and its okay to disagree. But I find myself just shaking my head at half the whacked out nonsense you spew. Which brings me back to my original proposition.

Shall we?

PS. I foresee Huzer popping in and saying something non-committal and arrogant:lol:

[erod550]

Lol, I'm not a super leftist regardless of your incessant need to label everyone who has a different outlook than you on a select few issues as a bleeding heart tree hugger.

Also, what's with the name calling? Why does someone with a different point of view have to be nutty, illogical, nonsensical, or uneducated, all things that have been suggested in this thread. Life isn't black and white my friend.

But this kind of pettiness is exactly why I try to stay out of this shit online. You're right, no one changes their minds anyway, so what's the point.

[mOOsE]

I agree, more of a what grinds my gears is more appropriate.

In terms of guns in classrooms. The number of CCW carriers being the cause of a problem is extremely low. I think you mentioned that your parents have CCW's each. If that is the case, you should know there is more involved. I hold gun owners and CCW holders to a very high responsibility, as they should be, so I don't see a problem as long as guidelines, training and licensing is followed. Just as I think the bill we currently have in play for "no online CCW" classes is completely valid. Guns are serious biz. Treat them as such and require in-person classes and competency evaluation through range tests. But obviously some of the others, like 30 round mags or portions of the other bills, I disagree with. I don't share the view of you the same as tut does obviously. I think you have a personal distaste for the AR argument, but that's your right. We can disagree in this country, it's awesome.

[Huzer]

Suggestion: Shall we make this thread more of a "what grinds my gears [politically]" type thing?
:

That was my intent, without naming it as such.

Carry on.

[mOOsE]

You're right, no one changes their minds anyway, so what's the point.

I did. I used to think the AR platform was completely unnecessary and only wanna-be military types bought them. Few years later I found myself building one of my own. I used to make fun of the gun-nuts. While some of them still are a bit nutty, I certainly understand more than I did then, and respect more of the rights people have.

[Justin]

Same goes with Justin, I'm not even going to try.

Compared to you? Maybe. According to the interwebz, I'm more libertarian than left, and that's pretty much how I'd describe myself. There's value in talking about this stuff, and I appreciate hearing the points of view of others. I'll listen, but may not change my mind. To me, policy should be based on well researched, well funded, clearly defined facts. I don't think we have enough of those to make sensible decisions regarding gun control. If there were clear evidence that banning all firearms saved zillions of lives and made us all happier, I'd be for it. If there was obvious that gun control made no difference, I'd support everyone mounting rocket launchers on their cars. Frankly, I'm not sure why you try at all if the goal is to win the hearts and minds of us CMZCers. Why would anyone make a radical change in their opinion because someone on the internet said so? These threads are good for arguing and little else, and they're good fun until someone's panties get all wadded up. Then they're really fun.

[I`m Batman]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...
Ban alcohol! Alcohol has contributed to more violence and deaths than "the scary looking black rifle that shoots tiny .22 caliber bullets and function exactly the same as any other semi-auto rifle but because it looks scary and dumb uneducated politicians want to ban it"