The building block

firestoned · Postby **firestoned** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:14

DNP Directly told me not to use it on their header. The DNP is made out of 321 stainless steel, but they said it would void any warranty if wrapped. Stock heat shields do not fit, and no, there is no top mount heat soaker... front mount FTW

SpeedRacer · Postby **SpeedRacer** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:14

I'm waiting for Steedspeed mani :P

roninsoldier83 · Postby **roninsoldier83** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:14

I've never really been a big fan of tubular SS manifolds, for a variety of reasons... but would recommend coating over wrapping. Exhaust manifolds on turbo cars see considerably higher EGT's than NA cars due to the additional exhaust back pressure from the turbine itself. Combine that with the fact that unlike NA cars, they also have to help support the additional weight of a turbo, putting more stress on them overall.

After several years of being around the DSM/EVO/WRX crowd, I've just heard of too many people wrapping tubular manifolds, and over the course of time ending up with cracked manifolds. It's kind of a win/lose situation. Wrapping can help with heat retention, which is an area where stainless steel is at a disadvantage when compared to cast iron. Heat retention will help with exhaust velocity, and ultimately the motor's overall VE.

It's fairly interesting stuff, especially to see on a dyno. Make several pulls with a cast iron manifold, getting it to full operating temperature (i.e. hot), watching spool-up on a graph. Then let cool for 10 minutes or so, make another pull, and you'll notice your spool will be a couple hundred RPM later, due to your exhaust manifold not being heated to the same degree. This effect is even more pronounced with stainless steel manifolds, they'll need a good bit of heat to maintain the same spool times.

I think tubular manifolds look badass, and typically have less obstruction than an OEM cast mani, but hate that they somewhat limit your options. When swapping over to larger than stock turbos, if I have my choice, I would rather run an external wastegate, for more precise boost control, and to eliminate excess exhaust turbulence (via external dump

), which depending on the turbo you're running, is usually good for anywhere from 10-40whp, allowing you to reduce your EGT's, and allowing you to make more power with less timing advance (read: safer). Not to mention they sound badass

Sure, with an OE manifold, you're likely going to have to toss it out to run an EWG as well (unless you are able to weld a flange to run a 38/44mm EWG onto your stock manifold, like some of the Honda guys do), but at least you're not throwing away money on a shiny tubular that will end up in the trash if you ever decide to run EWG. Just a personal opinion.

If available, what I would like to see would be an aftermarket cast manifold with an EWG port, like a few companies make for the old Neon SRT-4's:
http://www.cimotorsports.net/motor-sport-products/atp-exhaust-manifold-dodge-neon-srt4.html

^^^That would be AWESOME to see on a Mazdaspeed car!! Would help hold more boost to redline, might decrease spool time slightly, lower your EGT's, and scare the pants off of anything next to you once the WG opens (assuming you're dumping to atmosphere)! One day I'll get to hear an EWG on a Mazdaspeed car... one day. [/rant]

Until then, on a turbo manifold that helps support the turbo itself, I would go ceramic over wrap, mostly just for longevity purposes. Just my $.02 good luck!

firestoned · Postby **firestoned** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:14

The Steed Speed could be very nice..thats a whole 'nother ball game there.... external WG is a big plus.. when the time comes, if needed I will switch out.. the cost is up there, expecially when you factor in the wastgate..

roninsoldier83 · Postby **roninsoldier83** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:14

firestoned wrote:thats a whole 'nother ball game there.... external WG is a big plus.. when the time comes, if needed I will switch out.. the cost is up there, expecially when you factor in the wastgate...

Yeah, it does get pricey, but completely worth it. You can typically find a good Tial 38mm for around $220-250 or so, with the larger Tial 44mm starting around $350+ or so. For anything under about a 44 lb/min turbo, a 38mm should suffice. If you don't mind a knockoff WG, they can be had for much cheaper. Assuming someone actually makes one to fit your application, a manifold with an EWG flange shouldn't be too much more than a standard non-flanged version, maybe $50 give or take, depending on the maker's profit margins. All that's necessary after that would be a dump pipe, which you can usually source/put together for less than $50. Completely worth it IMO. Well, assuming you don't want to plumb it back into the exhaust, as then it could get more pricey (not to mention you'll typically lose 10+whp or so vs dumping to atmosphere).

The only issue past that is making sure your IWG stays shut while driving... don't know about the K04, but for most Subaru used turbos, there are companies that make brackets to keep the IWG arm closed, for around $25 or so, making swapping easy, and no need to weld the IWG shut:
http://www.grimmspeed.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60_33_36_38&products_id=131&osCsid=detrd5689crevhgpcgud6tl0g2

Most larger than stock turbos come with IWG's, so not really much of a "need" to swap out... you'll just be leaving a good amount of power on the table running an IWG vs EWG, but then again, the same can be said for every turbo, including the stock one

The amount of power left on the table just increases with the size of the turbo.

firestoned · Postby **firestoned** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:14

Like this??

http://steedspeed.com/new_projects

roninsoldier83 · Postby **roninsoldier83** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:14

firestoned wrote:Like this??

http://steedspeed.com/new_projects

EXACTLY!! It's funny, as I JUST found that less than a minute ago lol. That's perfect IMO. That manifold+Tial 38mm WG+dump pipe+closed IWG FTW!! I'm glad someone is bringing a manifold like that to the market for the Mazdaspeed cars

The perfect setup would be that, plus pick up a block off plate (typically less than $20), and an IWG bracket from a company like area1320, that way if you ever wanted to swap back to IWG for emissions ect, it would only take a few minutes. I'm pretty sure the area1320 guys will fab up an IWG bracket for just about turbo, might want to check them out:
http://area1320.com/products.html

Rich · Postby **Rich** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:14

That Steedspeed mani looks so sexy. Gonna wait for it Eric?

firestoned · Postby **firestoned** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:14

nope... they are more than a couple months out on the final product, and like I said, Ill watch others experiment with the whole external wastegate topic, and then choose after that wether or not I want to pursue that route. For now, the DNP is top choice for me.. and it is amazingly beautiful.

firestoned · Postby **firestoned** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:14

parts are showing up finally.... a few pics of the manifold, I cant believe how strong the thing is, very thick walls, and i didnt know this, but the inside of the tubes are coated...

turbo should be here Saturday

StormsOtherSide · Postby **StormsOtherSide** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:14

Hey man, if you need a hand let me know! I will be more than willing to help. Firestone isnt too far for me

firestoned · Postby **firestoned** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:14

thanks for the offers to help, everybody.. I will definitely let you know when I do the install..

Turbo Inlet Pipe is unexpectedly shipping early, as I got bumped WAY up on the list, so that a plus, shoul be here Wednesday. Also the turbo is ceramic coated already..another plus...

The manifold is at Premier Coatings right now getting coated, will be done Friday.

Cp-e intercooler will probably not arrive this next week, which sucks cause thats all Im waiting for now, besides the downpipe, which will be here Wednesday..

More pics of the parts and updates to come soon,,,

tbot · Postby **tbot** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:14

thats bad ass eric, can't wait to see it all done. I'm also curious as to what the final power numbers will be with this setup!

firestoned · Postby **firestoned** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:14

mmmmm...tuurrbboo

MazdaTom · Postby **MazdaTom** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:14

And just think, it wasn't long ago that you were saying: "eff this P.O.S. car. I hate it and I hate Mazda."

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