Next Car: 2015 GTI or 2015 WRX?

[roninsoldier83]

So, before anyone says it, I know, I go through cars like some people go through socks. I know I'm not the only one here with a bit of a problem (I'm looking straight at you Tim...), but it is what it is . I currently have a Ford Focus ST and I purchased it for several very good reasons. Namely to help rapidly pay off looming debt, decrease my overall debt level/monthly bills and also help recuperate my savings/emergency funds that were exhausted after buying my house a little over a year ago. I'm happy to say that my plan has been a success: I now have no more credit card/unsecured debt and I've been aggressively stocking the coffers. I'm also able to now put more cash into my retirement as well, which is a nice little added bonus.

Since buying the FoST, I've recently received a very substantial pay raise and I have another (smaller) pay raise coming in January 2015. I plan on driving the FoST until around springtime of 2015; I've already got a winter wheel/tire setup, so I might as well use it. After that, I plan on getting one of the two new cars that I preferred over the FoST when I initially drove all of them several months back: either the 2015 GTI or the 2015 WRX. I preferred both of them by a pretty good margin when I drove them, but at the time, the FoST was just too cheap to walk away from! This upcoming spring the price difference will be pretty negligible financially.

Why don't I keep the FoST, you ask? Honestly, the main reason is that I want some flavor of automatic for a daily driver. As of right now, I'm commuting across town from Lakewood to either northeast Aurora or Centennial 7 days a week. With my current hours, as well as the current hours of my son's school (afternoon only), its not too bad with a manual; but that's going to change next year and I'll be spending uncomfortably long amounts of time in rush hour traffic pretty much daily (well at least 5 days a week, plus commuting 2 more days on the weekends which won't be so bad). Yeah, I know, I know, cry me a river- #firstworldproblems - and yes, I'll be sure to get a tube of vagisil to help with my irritability. That and I'm getting older and more banged up as time goes on; a manual is still my preferred transmission when hitting up a windy mountain road, but it's not my cup of tea in bumper to bumper traffic.... one of these days there will be another project car in the garage (with a manual), but until then, I'm looking for a sporty auto to get me through the daily grind.

Enter the WRX and GTI. They mark ALL of my wants and needs boxes- 4 doors, FWD or AWD, reasonable fuel economy, under my budget, sporty/tons of fun, fairly quick and available in an auto.

They differ in their transmissions (CVT vs DSG), but Subaru's CVT is really MUCH better than any CVT I've ever driven; it emulates an 8 speed auto with quick paddle shifters in S# mode and does a pretty good job. I really liked it (the CVT) a lot when I drove one (I never thought I would ever say that!); but the DSG was still the superior gearbox (errr, belt-box? for the CVT).

Car and Driver and Motor Trend have compared both of them:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-subaru-wrx-vs-2015-volkswagen-gti-comparison-test
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1407_comparison_four_fun_sporty_runabouts_under_30000/viewall.html

^^^They both said the GTI was the better car. I also found another comparo that had them both equipped with automatic trannies:

http://www.autos.ca/car-comparisons/comparison-test-2015-subaru-wrx-cvt-vs-2015-volkswagen-gti-dsg/?all=1

^^^Same thing, they preferred the GTI as well.

In truth, I was really impressed by the WRX, even with a CVT.... but for dry weather roads, I preferred the GTI, albeit barely. And its not enough of a convincing preference to fully write off the WRX's AWD advantages. Quick breakdown:

-GTI:

Pros:
-Nicer interior- better seats, dash layout, materials, stereo, ect.
-Much smoother ride, without much of a penalty in the handling department.
-DSG>CVT. The WRX's CVT is good, but its not DSG good.
-Hatchback- storage space!
-Cleaner design (subjective).
-Slightly better fuel economy- 25/33mpg for DSG.
-Marginally cheaper (both very close).
-Turbo lag? What's that?!? Full boost at 1600rpm!!
-I like VW's. There, I said it.

Cons:
-FWD. The new Performance Pack uses an electronically controlled LSD that can transfer up to 100% power to the outside wheel to make the car corner like an AWD car. All reports state there's no torque steer whatsoever. They state it drives like an AWD car.... but lets be honest, just because it handles well on dry pavement doesn't mean it'll match AWD in the snow.
-Cannot fully defeat stability control. Its reported that the new "Sport" mode isn't really intrusive and doesn't slow the car down; but you still can't fully turn it off.
-VW reliability. Need I say more?
-Dash stroking, limp wristed community.
-Pricey for a FWD hatch, even if it does come with a nice feature list.
-Hencho en Mexico. No Bueno.

-WRX:

Pros:
-AWD. Need I say more?
-Slightly quicker acceleration due to AWD.
-Marginally better lap times/handling (again- AWD). Motor Trend ran the WRX around the Streets of Willow in 88.34 seconds vs 88.54 seconds for the VW. Essentially they're neck and neck (assuming the VW has the Performance Pack); but there's still a very slight advantage to the WRX.
-Likely lower maintenance costs long term & increased reliability; although that remains to be seen as they're both new.
-More power; although that's debatable as the VW is underrated and they both pull nearly identical trap speeds, so its pretty much a wash from a rolling start.
-Some might see a sedan as being "more grown up". Again, subjective.
-Possibly more fun on a mountain road- debatable.

Cons:
-Fuel economy. This is a slippery slope... the WRX w/CVT is rated at 19/25mpg, but Subaru stated they rated the car while in Sport mode only. They admitted that if left in Intelligent mode, it would act more like a traditional CVT and fuel economy would increase by 5mpg. This claim is backed by numerous WRX CVT guys on Nasioc getting 30+mpg. Still a slight victory the the GTI, but not nearly as much of a gap as their fuel economy ratings might suggest.
-Slightly more expensive.
-Sedan only. (Damn you Suburu!!)
-Probably not the "better" overall daily driver.
-Sideways hat wearing kids trying to race you at a light more often.

I've owned 2 VW's.... I've owned 2 Subaru's.... out of those 4 cars, I would say that my VW's have been the most enjoyable daily drivers overall and were certainly the most well rounded daily's I've ever owned. However, I might change my tune when the snow starts falling- although my Golf R was AWD & was a tank in the snow! But I'm not wanting to drop $35k+ on the upcoming Golf R, so that's not really viable here.

Statistically, it snows here in metro area approximately 30 days a year... on those 30 days, I think there might be a yearning for the Subaru... but, on the other 330+ days, well, I think the VW would fit the bill just fine. Hell, with a set of snow tires on, the VW might be just fine year round anyway. I'm curious to see how my snow tire shod FoST handles it this winter- particularly how it handles getting up my driveway. I think that could really help sway my decision one way or another. I'm also curious about VW's upcoming trick LSD and how much of a difference it'll make in the snow as well.

Of those 30 days of snow, lets be honest, it barely sticks to the road on around 1/3rd of them and I can probably manage just fine for most of the rest of them.... but I'm not going to lie, I'll probably be fairly cranky if I actually had to burn vacation/sick time due to not being able to get to work because of snow. Unlikely event, as the GTI + snow tires would likely be "fine", but its something to consider. I've actually never owned a FWD car that I put snow tires on (until now), so it should be interesting this winter. I've owned FWD cars with all-seasons in the past, and while I never got stuck and always made it to work, there were several moments of frustration to say the least. This winter should be a learning experience!

It is worth it to pickup the WRX for those 30 days of snow? Or for other AWD related advantages? Or would you guys just take your chances with a GTI + snow tires? There really isn't too much in the way of "hills" on my commute; just my driveway, which isn't too bad after you get over the steep angled curb; but it is a concern.

Photos of the driveway curb in question:




^^^Nothing too crazy, but as you can see by the numerous scratch marks, its a bit steep/sharp. Thankfully, the scratch marks aren't from my cars, as I take it at a sharp angle.... the lady of the house can't say the same! But I digress...

What thinks you? New GTI or new WRX?

Thanks for the thoughts in advance!

-Brandon

[turbo99jetta]

you already know my opinion. I'm looking at Golf R once I can get rid of our Mazda 6....

[Huzer]

The same trio I was investigating (although I was hunting for 2014s, purposely knowing they'd be refreshed in 2015 and hoping for a deal, no luck.) I also wanted a hatch, knocking out the 2015 WRX. Price independent, I most likely would've taken a 2014 WRX.

Of the 2015s, I'd prob go with the GTI. I can't tell you the last time I owned a sedan, and going through my previously owned list...I've never owned one. I've only had hatches, coupes, or wagons (let's not get into trucks). Now that I think of it, how strange that I've never owned a sedan out of the 22 4 wheeled vehicles I've had. That's something I should fix!

I tend to make larger differences in vehicles when I swap (CRX to Yukon, Tundra Crew to Focus hatch, RX8 to Volvo wagon), so I'm sure when I change vehicles, it'll be something significantly different. Wrangler Unlimited? A (gasp!) sedan (used M5 sounds fun) Used Cayman S (ha)? Miata haul vehicle, although where would I store the trailer? Since I'm only 6 months in, I probably have another 6 -12 months before I'll get a serious itch to trade it in. Ideally, I'd keep it longer, but we know my history. I've now owned the Miata longer than I had the Tundra...and I've only had it a whopping 19 months.

So for no reason in particular, I'd go with a GTI, simply because I like them, and they've always looked clean to my eye. I've never owned either a VW or Subie, so I don't have the "I owned one of these before" issues to deal with.

[Mortose]

Of the 2, I would choose the GTI. Much more refinement as well as a better interior then pretty much any Subaru.

I pose a secondary question: did you try the ralliart/evo MR with the SST dual clutch trans?

[I`m Batman]

I would go for the Subie.

[roninsoldier83]

you already know my opinion. I'm looking at Golf R once I can get rid of our Mazda 6....

Yeah, I hear ya.... If I could justify the extra coin, I would also pickup the Golf R (w/DSG) and there wouldn't even be a debate. The upcoming R is very tempting.... too bad that the DSG version will likely be $36k+ and I doubt many dealers are going to move on their pricing anytime soon.

[roninsoldier83]

The same trio I was investigating (although I was hunting for 2014s, purposely knowing they'd be refreshed in 2015 and hoping for a deal, no luck.) I also wanted a hatch, knocking out the 2015 WRX. Price independent, I most likely would've taken a 2014 WRX.

Of the 2015s, I'd prob go with the GTI. I can't tell you the last time I owned a sedan, and going through my previously owned list...I've never owned one. I've only had hatches, coupes, or wagons (let's not get into trucks). Now that I think of it, how strange that I've never owned a sedan out of the 22 4 wheeled vehicles I've had. That's something I should fix!

I tend to make larger differences in vehicles when I swap (CRX to Yukon, Tundra Crew to Focus hatch, RX8 to Volvo wagon), so I'm sure when I change vehicles, it'll be something significantly different. Wrangler Unlimited? A (gasp!) sedan (used M5 sounds fun) Used Cayman S (ha)? Miata haul vehicle, although where would I store the trailer? Since I'm only 6 months in, I probably have another 6 -12 months before I'll get a serious itch to trade it in. Ideally, I'd keep it longer, but we know my history. I've now owned the Miata longer than I had the Tundra...and I've only had it a whopping 19 months.

So for no reason in particular, I'd go with a GTI, simply because I like them, and they've always looked clean to my eye. I've never owned either a VW or Subie, so I don't have the "I owned one of these before" issues to deal with.

Wow, I typically stick to the same "niche" markets- I never realized you made such drastic changes! I also didn't know you've never owned a sedan... I've owned several 3 box cars, but if given a choice, I prefer hatches over sedans.

For the record, you would invoke my jealousy if you ever picked up an M5 or Cayman.... I'm just sayin'.

[roninsoldier83]

Of the 2, I would choose the GTI. Much more refinement as well as a better interior then pretty much any Subaru.

I pose a secondary question: did you try the ralliart/evo MR with the SST dual clutch trans?

Yes..... I drove the Ralliart a few years back and was never impressed- it really can't compete with the new GTI or WRX for fun factor or refinement.

The EVO MR is a different story entirely.... damn good car- tons of fun! It's also in an entirely different price bracket [new]... and with all the driving I do, the poor fuel economy (17/22mpg) would mean its an even more expensive proposition. Plus the WRX sedan barely has enough trunk space for my needs (12 cu. ft); whereas the EVO would be a tough sell (6.9 cu. ft).

To get an EVO MR in the same price range, it would need to be a used, fairly high mileage example and I don't know if I trust many used EVO's with high mileage to have been well cared for. And if I was buying new (price wise), I think I would just spend the coin on the upcoming Golf R instead.

[Colombia28]

Decisions, decisions!

I like both choices, and would normally quickly put my vote in for the WRX. However, I'm finding it hard to do that. I'm going to copy you and do a bullet point pro and con based on my opinion of the two. Full disclosure, I've never driven or even been in either. So for what it's worth this will all be rather subjective.

WRX Pros
- AWD (Who doesn't love AWD! Never have to worry about the snowy days at all. Going to the mountains? No problem!)
- Subaru (Have I ever mentioned I love Subaru?)
- Boxer motor (See previous statement)
- Community (You mentioned it; it's awesome)
- Aftermarket (Great support and tons of products if you choose to mod)

WRX Cons
- Design (Massively subjective but I don't like the way they look now)
- CVT (autos make me cry but I get why you want one)
- CVT (I distrust CVT's. They are witchcraft) (again never driven the WRX w/ CVT)
That's about all I got.. lol

GTI Pros
- Design (Mucho better looking!)
- DSG (As much as I hate to admit it, I've never heard a single thing bad about this box)
- Interior (mmmmm)
- Commercials (Loved the old ones)
- Hatch (Love me them hatchbacks!)

GTI Cons
- It's not a Subaru
- FWD (Though never a horrible thing at times, I'm tired of it. I can attest that a FWD with good snows will do just fine in the snow if you play your cards right)

Overall, in the end if I had the choice I'd still take the WRX.

Verdict: WRX!

[Justin]

I'll put in a vote for the GTI. I've got a TDI Golf with the DSG and am very happy with that transmission. It does a great job of keeping the diesel in the meat of it's torque curve, and because of the very fast shifts there's no loss of boost above 2nd gear. It drives like it's electric. You might test drive the TDI. The diesel torque is awesome, and I average around 45 mpg on my commute from Lakewood to Lafayette. Stock it has 236 ft/lbs, and can easily be chipped to 275+.

[Saul_Good]

The criteria for your choosing a car is so off from mine, all I can say is choose the VDub.

I've never owned one but I hear they are great drivers cars.

[erod550]

Since you're a grown up now, I'd take the GTI. When I was younger all I cared about was how fast the car was and who cares about the interior or amenities. Now that I'm not trying to race everything on the street, I want something that's more comfortable and more refined and pure speed is no longer a factor, or at least not as big of one. For that reason I'd say go with the GTI. It also happens to be the car you seem to talk about the most so I think deep down that's the one you want more.

The AWD is nice in the snow but I've never had any problems in any of my FWD cars with snow tires or even my Miata with snow tires so I don't think AWD alone should make your decision.

[roninsoldier83]

WRX Pros
- AWD (Who doesn't love AWD! Never have to worry about the snowy days at all. Going to the mountains? No problem!)
- Subaru (Have I ever mentioned I love Subaru?)
- Boxer motor (See previous statement)
- Community (You mentioned it; it's awesome)
- Aftermarket (Great support and tons of products if you choose to mod)

WRX Cons
- Design (Massively subjective but I don't like the way they look now)
- CVT (autos make me cry but I get why you want one)
- CVT (I distrust CVT's. They are witchcraft) (again never driven the WRX w/ CVT)
That's about all I got.. lol

GTI Pros
- Design (Mucho better looking!)
- DSG (As much as I hate to admit it, I've never heard a single thing bad about this box)
- Interior (mmmmm)
- Commercials (Loved the old ones)
- Hatch (Love me them hatchbacks!)

GTI Cons
- It's not a Subaru
- FWD (Though never a horrible thing at times, I'm tired of it. I can attest that a FWD with good snows will do just fine in the snow if you play your cards right)

Overall, in the end if I had the choice I'd still take the WRX.

Verdict: WRX!

Good points! Although a couple of them are debatable:

-Boxer motor.... generally, in my experience from owning 2 turbo'd Subaru's, an inline-4>boxer 4. The boxer gets mounted lower in the engine bay, which is a plus for handling, but its generally not as robust as its inline counterpart.

-Aftermarket (WRX) support.... The old EJ-series motors have a huge aftermarket. The new DI FA20? Not so much, as they're pretty new. I don't planning on modding the car (I haven't really modded my last 3 daily drivers), but if I did, the new GTI's motor is an undertuned beast! With nothing but an ECU tune, APR got the new GTI's 1/4 mile down from 14.283@97.10mph to 13.189@110.40mph on 93 octane! That's pretty impressive:
http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb.html

-DSG.... Good gearbox, one of the best in the business; but there is one caveat: they require expensive fluid services every 30k-40k miles. Not a deal breaker, but that is one of their worst qualities.

Other than that, very valid points! Hopefully I'll get to test the FWD car with snow tires theory this week.

I'll put in a vote for the GTI. I've got a TDI Golf with the DSG and am very happy with that transmission. It does a great job of keeping the diesel in the meat of it's torque curve, and because of the very fast shifts there's no loss of boost above 2nd gear. It drives like it's electric. You might test drive the TDI. The diesel torque is awesome, and I average around 45 mpg on my commute from Lakewood to Lafayette. Stock it has 236 ft/lbs, and can easily be chipped to 275+.

You know, I considered that.... I'm not gonna lie, when Volkswagen announced they might bring the VW GTD over here, it was going to be at the top of my list of cars to test drive.... but it doesn't look like that's still going to happen. Too bad, it couldn't been an interesting proposition. But unfortunately, one of my favorite things about the GTI is the handing, and not only is the new TDI "softer", the new MK7 version is said to only be coming with a torsen bar rear suspension. That fact alone really kills it for me. Otherwise, good thought.

The criteria for your choosing a car is so off from mine, all I can say is choose the VDub.

I've never owned one but I hear they are great drivers cars.

Yeah, I really loved my previous GTI... I'm curious, what does your criteria consist of?

Since you're a grown up now, I'd take the GTI. When I was younger all I cared about was how fast the car was and who cares about the interior or amenities. Now that I'm not trying to race everything on the street, I want something that's more comfortable and more refined and pure speed is no longer a factor, or at least not as big of one. For that reason I'd say go with the GTI. It also happens to be the car you seem to talk about the most so I think deep down that's the one you want more.

The AWD is nice in the snow but I've never had any problems in any of my FWD cars with snow tires or even my Miata with snow tires so I don't think AWD alone should make your decision.

To be honest, if we were in a state that didn't involve snow, I don't think there would even be a debate- I would just get the GTI and be done with it, as the new Performance Pack's LSD is said to completely transform the car and reported to drive more like an AWD- with no torque steer to speak of.

I'm hoping to get a chance to test the FWD car + snow tires this week. That should help give me a bit of resolve one way or another.

[RX-7 Chris]

My father-in-law has an outback with the CVT. I've driven it a few times. Even though they say it has the feeling of an auto with gears, it really doesn't feel that way to me. I'm not really sure how I feel about it. My father-in-law likes it for driving in the mountains, no finding gears while climbing the hills.

[roninsoldier83]

My father-in-law has an outback with the CVT. I've driven it a few times. Even though they say it has the feeling of an auto with gears, it really doesn't feel that way to me. I'm not really sure how I feel about it. My father-in-law likes it for driving in the mountains, no finding gears while climbing the hills.

The WRX is a bit different, as it has its own special CVT calibration. If you press either the S or S# button, it has a pre-defined set of either 6 (S) or 8 (S#) ratios that it won't deviate from. Subaru rated gas mileage at 5mpg lower in S mode because of this. The other models on Subaru's lineup don't get the same programming feature.

I've driven the new WRX with a CVT, and I was actually pretty impressed. Set to S# mode, it really did mimic an 8-speed auto and the paddle shifters were very responsive (much faster than my old G37's 7-speed auto). Although the "shifts" were smoother than a traditional auto; you don't get the same "kick" during a hard gear change. I'm assuming this had to do with the fact that it's adjusting the pulleys slightly, rather than slamming into the next gear. Quick, but smooth.

I don't know if it's dual-clutch quick, but it was much better than I expected and very smooth. I've heard you can't really launch it like a manual (I didn't try), but seeing as I'm getting older, this is something that doesn't bother me in the least, as its not something I can recall doing on my last several cars anyway!

If you leave the WRX in I (Intelligent) mode, it acts more like a traditional CVT. Not bad for gas mileage, but not a whole lot of fun.... I think the WRX will kick itself into "Sport/S" mode if you give it full throttle automatically, but for commuting and saving gas/money, "I" mode would be fine.