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chickenwafer · Postby **chickenwafer** » Sat May 21, 2011 9:14

Why the hell would he adjust the TB like that? Makes no sense IMO. The PFC controls idle very poorly by adjusting timing dynamically to achieve the desired RPM so it's very sensitive to air bleed adjustments and the idle set screw.

Hopefully you get it figured out Eric. If you need a hand you know I can always help!

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Mon May 23, 2011 9:14

Yeah I'm not sure, it kinda pissed me off to be honest because I took a couple hours and made sure it was set correctly the night before, and now I can't get it to idle as well as it did before. It's usually too high at 1400, or too low at around 900, which is what it's idling at now. Normally I'd like an idle around 900, but with a port this large I'd prefer somewhere around 1100 or so. But if it's at 1400 and I try to adjust it down to 1100, it drops all the way to 900. I can't hit that sweet spot. If you could adjust the timing to where I could set the TB back to where it's supposed to be, that would be great. I can't even adjust the screw on the front all the way back out without the car surging and wanting to die because it's idling around 700.

I loaded the MAC map back on there last night and it fired up just like the old map does. With either map it's somewhat hard to start, like the plugs are fowling already. I pretty much have to cut fuel while cranking. I noticed on the MAC map there is a hesitation when I press on the pedal before it starts revving. I thought it was because he adjusted the throttle cable to very loose, but I adjusted it back tighter and that didn't make a difference, so I'm thinking it has to do with timing. Boy I really love paying $380 for a map I can't use and possibly hurting the engine. It runs leaner for the most part and I like that, but I'm still concerned with it being hard to start and burning oil as well. I am done with people that aren't strictly rotary tuners, and I'm done with dyno tuning.

chickenwafer · Postby **chickenwafer** » Mon May 23, 2011 9:14

Well your car just hates dynos anyways haha.

I can work on a map for you tonight and send it over. Your timing for cranking looks a little weird too and close to the stock PFC map which is notoriously bad for cold starting. Are you having issues starting it hot or cold or both?

What is your fuel pressure at idle? I would reset your FRP to 43.5psi with the engine idling. You have ID injectors which also LOVE higher fuel pressures so you could even bump it to 50psi at idle. Assuming you have a 1:1 referencing FRP for boost that would put you at 70psi rail pressure at 20psi of boost.

I don't recommend it but to get the TB dialed in you can unplug the ISC and uncheck the "Ign Control" which will disable the dynamic timing control for the PFC at idle and lock timing at -5*L -20*T, which means it will idle like crap. But you should be able to get your TB dialed into the RPM you want or closely to it.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Mon May 23, 2011 9:14

Yes it definitely hates dynos lol.

My starting issues are at both hot and cold IIRC. It's just kinda hard to start regardless. I mean, not SUPER hard, but I usually hold the pedal down to cut fuel and it seems to help. I'm going to try to start it without pressing the pedal down and see how it does, I'm just afraid it won't start. When I was first breaking it in, it would fire right up. Now it's acting like it has fouled plugs, even though I cleaned them at MAC.

I also did a test last night, not sure if it even makes sense haha. I was trying to see if the oil control rings were bad, and I figured if I pressurized the system and held the throttle plates open, if the rings were bad I should be able to feel air coming out of the oil filler neck...theoretically, and in my own mind haha. Not sure if that really makes sense. I didn't feel any air though. I'd like to swap on another turbo and run it to see if it still burns oil, but the only turbo I have available is my old turbo and it's already on Zico's car.

My fuel pressure is at 40, or 38 or whatever at idle. Maybe I'll try upping it to 43.5 or 50 then. Maybe I'll unplug the ISC and all to check idle too. I want to drive it tomorrow to see if I have any more problems with it, but I'm kinda scared haha.

yoojeankim · Postby **yoojeankim** » Tue May 24, 2011 9:14

speedjunkie wrote:Yeah I'm not sure, it kinda pissed me off to be honest because I took a couple hours and made sure it was set correctly the night before, and now I can't get it to idle as well as it did before. It's usually too high at 1400, or too low at around 900, which is what it's idling at now. Normally I'd like an idle around 900, but with a port this large I'd prefer somewhere around 1100 or so. But if it's at 1400 and I try to adjust it down to 1100, it drops all the way to 900. I can't hit that sweet spot. If you could adjust the timing to where I could set the TB back to where it's supposed to be, that would be great. I can't even adjust the screw on the front all the way back out without the car surging and wanting to die because it's idling around 700.

I loaded the MAC map back on there last night and it fired up just like the old map does. With either map it's somewhat hard to start, like the plugs are fowling already. I pretty much have to cut fuel while cranking. I noticed on the MAC map there is a hesitation when I press on the pedal before it starts revving. I thought it was because he adjusted the throttle cable to very loose, but I adjusted it back tighter and that didn't make a difference, so I'm thinking it has to do with timing. Boy I really love paying $380 for a map I can't use and possibly hurting the engine. It runs leaner for the most part and I like that, but I'm still concerned with it being hard to start and burning oil as well. I am done with people that aren't strictly rotary tuners, and I'm done with dyno tuning.

well said... just going to stick with chicken wafer and steven kann

I was a bit irked that no one at MAC was trying to help fix the situation either... although you're there for a tuning session, i know most shops would def. just try to help start the car and get it off (as the owner would want)

I've heard good/bads of MAC and I really have no say since I haven't had a bad experience with them but me being with Eric for most of the time...I personally wouldn't want to go to them. I'm not sure if you felt this Eric but most of the shop guys at Mac.. had that "know it all" vibe and I really hate that about most shops... I was just peeking around and just trying to start conversations and they would answer with the most high horse answers. I'm sure if i came their with my turbo nsx they would get off that horse.

anywhos I hope you can fix it because having your rx7 down is like having my own :mad:

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Tue May 24, 2011 9:14

I didn't really look bad on them for not helping me get the car running, but I also didn't think it was the best way to handle it either. While I was working on the car, Nick was looking up parts for a GTO, possibly his own. I also would figure they would want to get it off the dyno but it's not really their responsibility to get it running either. Although, since it died with him driving and tuning it, I would figure he would help. I'm 50/50 on this haha.

The only person I talked to there other than Nick was the guy in the Marines, he was pretty cool. I'm still irked that Nick messed with my throttle body settings instead of just tuning it the way it was set up. And now it's all jacked.

I started the car tonight on the MAC map without pressing the gas pedal, and it fired right up. It idled kinda funny, but most of the time would settle back down. I drove it around for a bit tonight to see how it would act. It drove fine, idle was funny, and I'm sure it's burning oil still but I'm going to check tomorrow to see how bad. I also boosted pretty strong on it. In 3rd gear I got to 1.62 bar, and it's supposed to be limited to 1.5 haha. It was dark so I couldn't tell how bad it was smoking. It did seem a bit rich under boost also. I wasn't even watching the AFRs, I could just tell from the stuttering under higher boost. I think if I can get the oil burning issue fixed, a good tune should take care of the rest.

Twisted_grip · Postby **Twisted_grip** » Wed May 25, 2011 9:14

I hope that all it needs... love to see it in the next cruize!

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Wed May 25, 2011 9:14

I emailed Rich and told him about the little test I did and about reaching 1.62 bar and he said "turn it down to 1.25 on the PFC, wtf is wrong with you?" Am I missing something?? 1.62 BAR at 6030 feet is 20 PSI. Even at sea level it's only 23 PSI. So I'm not sure why the PFC should be limited to 1.25 BAR.

I checked the oil this morning and it's not much lower than it was last night, if any lower. I might drive it again tomorrow and see what's up.

Dave, did you get a chance to put a map together? How about we get together soon and tune this thing? HAHA. I have some money with your name on it haha.

iani1.1 · Postby **iani1.1** » Wed May 25, 2011 9:14

speedjunkie wrote:I emailed Rich and told him about the little test I did and about reaching 1.62 bar and he said "turn it down to 1.25 on the PFC, wtf is wrong with you?" Am I missing something?? 1.62 BAR at 6030 feet is 20 PSI. Even at sea level it's only 23 PSI. So I'm not sure why the PFC should be limited to 1.25 BAR.

wait, what!? im sure the feeling of "**** i hope he didnt blow his engine" was going through his mind. with that said if the engine was built the right way as he probably said before you decided to have him build it. it should handle the 23psi just dont understand why he told you to bring it down to 17. odd...

does he know your break in period is over?

chickenwafer · Postby **chickenwafer** » Thu May 26, 2011 9:14

The PFC doesn't cut fuel until 0.25 kg/cm2 over your fuel cut, so 1.25 would actually be 1.5 kg/cm2 (not BAR, but it's close), which is 22psi LOL.

Like I said on the phone, I should be free this weekend Eric.

iani1.1 · Postby **iani1.1** » Thu May 26, 2011 9:14

damn pfc. i learned something new today lol

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Thu May 26, 2011 9:14

chickenwafer wrote:The PFC doesn't cut fuel until 0.25 kg/cm2 over your fuel cut, so 1.25 would actually be 1.5 kg/cm2 (not BAR, but it's close), which is 22psi LOL.

Like I said on the phone, I should be free this weekend Eric.

OK this confuses the crap outta me haha. I don't understand what fuel cut has to do with the boost pressure. I think I might understand how it works but I'm not sure. So basically if I had my EBC set to 1.25, when I boost it should read up to around 1.5 before it cuts power? Is that what you mean?

chickenwafer · Postby **chickenwafer** » Fri May 27, 2011 9:14

Essentially, yes. I'm talking about a boost-induced fuel cut. This is the only type of protection the PFC employs (it doesn't do ignition cut).

If boost pressure rises above the pressure set by 0.25kg/cm2 the PFC will cut fuel. This is how boost pressure and fuel cut relate- boost pressure is what makes the PFC cut fuel. If you don't want the PFC to cut fuel, then set the number very high. I think the highest the PFC can go 2.0, so you're fuel cut would be 2.25kg/cm2, which is 33psi.

And the PFC measures in kg/cm2, which is 14.223 psi per 1kg/cm2, whereas BAR is 14.503 psi to 1 Bar. As you can tell, the measure are VERY close, but they are a few tenths off.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Fri May 27, 2011 9:14

Oh OK gotcha. Maybe I'll just sell my car and get out of the car game altogether HAHA.

iani1.1 · Postby **iani1.1** » Fri May 27, 2011 9:14

theres always an option of building that fc lol

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