Build thread

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:14

I got finished with almost everything and just about ready to start the car. Installed the radiator, IC, and OMP tank, and filled up the oil, coolant, 2-cycle OMP tank, and power steering.

I ran fuel through the lines up to the engine, but it took a bit to fill the lines the first time so I was worried for a minute. I disconnected the 8AN elbow that goes into the secondary rail and ran it into an oil pan that was sitting on top of the engine. I jumped F/P and GND in the diagnostic box and eventually fuel came out, and it was shortly after that I discovered you should never get fuel on powdercoating. It stains and never comes out. Either way, fuel came out and I hooked up that line afterwards. Now I just need to install the UIM and the intake pipe for the turbo.

Tomorrow I plan to start the car and look for leaks. If all is good, I'll install the wheels and the front fenders. Then I plan to roll it onto the driveway, spray some cleaner on the oil coolers and fittings and hose them off. After that, I'm trying to decide if I want to go ahead and swap out the coils or drive it for a couple days at least. Sept 16th is my 10 year anniversary of owning the car and I'd like to drive it on that day, and I'm concerned if I try swapping the coils that something will go wrong and it won't work. I'd like to drive this car a bit at least before snow comes lol.

JTurton7 · Postby **JTurton7** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:14

how goes it man!?!

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:14

Goes crappy lol.

The other night Andy came over and when we turned the key on, fuel poured out of one of the fittings going into the fuel filters, so I replaced that fitting. Then I fixed the other leaks coming out of the filter area and checked the rest of the fuel lines. Then I fixed leaks on the water injection. Then we looked for updated software for the Adaptronic, and we got an update but the drivers wouldn't work, so we hooked up an old laptop with an old version of the software. Then we tried to start the car and it still has the slow cranking.

Last night I got home and hooked up the jump box and it cranked fast but still wouldn't start. I removed the turbo timer because it had been acting up and it was plugged into the ignition switch, but that didn't do anything. I checked the connector that goes into the ignition switch and every pin showed continuity to the chassis, and some of them showed continuity to other pins also. I'm wondering if maybe the harness burned out further down from where there was contact. Tonight I'm going to dig into Zico's car and test the same thigns to see what I get. Then I might jump a wire or two referrencing a thread on 7club and see if that will help.

FDEEZ · Postby **FDEEZ** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:14

It almost sounds like a grounding issue. Since you just painted your engine bay and redid the wiring in your bins, did you double check that all your grounds (e.g. ignitor, ecu, etc) are making a solid contact to the chassis?

Bad grounds were the source of the majority of my woes. Not only do my grounds now have great contact with the frame (with thick gauge cables), but most now go directly to the negative terminal on my battery.

lOOkatme · Postby **lOOkatme** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:14

I would pull apart the engine harness in the front drivers side and check each side of where there was damage to the wires and see if everything looks good. We know for a fact that damage exists in that area and that possibly more damage could be there that we didn't check for/see.

I would do that at a minimum.

Given:
The car had tougher and tougher times starting. We know this was a problem with the engine losing compression over time.

Then the car had problems turning over the engine, weird power loss when starting, etc. Its possible that the damaged wires could be causing such a problem and had gotten worse over time (tire kept hitting those wires) and eventually ripped/shorted/etc the wires in that area.

We know that the engine had done this before and after the engine rebuild. Lots of wires were loosened and reconnected, harness wise, etc. I would check the damn problem area with a fine tooth comb and check for continuity in all those wires and fix if problems are found.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:14

FDEEZ wrote:It almost sounds like a grounding issue. Since you just painted your engine bay and redid the wiring in your bins, did you double check that all your grounds (e.g. ignitor, ecu, etc) are making a solid contact to the chassis?

Bad grounds were the source of the majority of my woes. Not only do my grounds now have great contact with the frame (with thick gauge cables), but most now go directly to the negative terminal on my battery.

I was having these problems before rebuilding/painting the engine bay/redoing the wiring in the rear though. Remember? You brought the two batteries on maintenance day. It's the same problem.

I have several extra grounds on my engine. And I think I'll be redoing those with welding cable. Right now they're HKS Circle Earth cable that I got with the kit several years ago. Such a waste of money lol.

It almost has to be damage that was caused before the rebuild, or a broken/worn part.

lOOkatme wrote:I would pull apart the engine harness in the front drivers side and check each side of where there was damage to the wires and see if everything looks good. We know for a fact that damage exists in that area and that possibly more damage could be there that we didn't check for/see.

I would do that at a minimum.

Given:
The car had tougher and tougher times starting. We know this was a problem with the engine losing compression over time.

Then the car had problems turning over the engine, weird power loss when starting, etc. Its possible that the damaged wires could be causing such a problem and had gotten worse over time (tire kept hitting those wires) and eventually ripped/shorted/etc the wires in that area.

We know that the engine had done this before and after the engine rebuild. Lots of wires were loosened and reconnected, harness wise, etc. I would check the damn problem area with a fine tooth comb and check for continuity in all those wires and fix if problems are found.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking of doing if everything checks out with the ignition switch. Zico went through the same thing with his...thinking he fixed the problem and there was more he hadn't found yet. Although mine was different because his was damaged with the tire contacting it as it was rolling longways so it would pull the wire. Mine made contact as it was turning, more like cutting the wires in two instead of pulling it longways. But it still wouldn't hurt to check. And after my troubleshooting tonight I'm thinking it might be the harness still, damage I haven't found yet.

First I was going to replace the reverse light switch on the transmission because my reverse lights were on as long as the key was turned. Turns out I just had the switch tightened down too much. I left the ignition turned forward so I could see if the lights went off as I was taking it out, and it did. After the lights went out I just reached in and put the car in reverse and back to neutral. I did this several times to ensure the lights would come on and go off like normal. So that's fixed.

As for the starting problem...I checked Zico's connector to the ignition switch on his car, and the numbers I got were different and also ST on his ignition switch didn't have continuity to the chassis like mine did, so that might be something. I also took readings on my car on the ignition switch. Here is what I found...

Key off- I get 12.9v at B1 and B2
Key to ACC- I get about 12.5v at ACC, B1 and B2
Key to Run- I get about 12.5v to B1, B2, IG1, IG2, and ACC
Key to Start- I get 10v to ST, B1, B2 and IG1

Here are a couple pics of the schematic...

So, is anyone good at wiring? lol

Postby **RX-7 Chris** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:14

I'm good at wiring if you need help.

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:14

I think you might be the only person in this area that likes wiring or is good at it lol. I might need help reading the schematic, although at this point I'm pretty convinced I need to pull the harness apart and see if there is more damage. Unless you can look at this stuff and determine if there is something else it might be.

Looking at the ignition switch diagram, does it look like the switch is operating correctly? From what I can tell, it is. I don't see B1 and B2 labeled but from what it looks like I think they're the two coming into the top of the box. I can look at it tonight and verify that if I look at the color of the wires going to those two. Either way, it doesn't seem right to me that all of the wires are showing continuity to the chassis, but all the same wires except one are doing the same on Zico's car, so who knows.

Something else I just thought about...when I had the dash pulled out last fall I pulled the alarm out while I was in there. All I did was splice wires back together and made sure I did the correct wires. But maybe I messed something up with that still.

Postby **RX-7 Chris** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:14

all the wires will show continuity to the chassis because they all eventually make it back there. it's hard to explain things through a forum, lol

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:14

Oh ok. Yeah I don't get that lol.

Actually another friend made a good point and made me think. It almost has to be the ignition switch because the power is doing in the switch. Unless I truly don't understand electrical, which is entirely probable lol.

Website · Postby **Shadowden** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:14

RX-7 Chris wrote:all the wires will show continuity to the chassis because they all eventually make it back there. it's hard to explain things through a forum, lol

Because they all go to ground and the chasis is generally ground?

I've been through a basic circuit engineering class, but suck at wiring. I couldn't even find b2 on your schrmatic. What wire do you show continuity at the chasis that zico doesn't?

speedjunkie · Postby **speedjunkie** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:14

If I remember correctly, it's ST.

I borrowed the ignition switch from Morris, that's not the problem. So I guess sometime this weekend I'll pull that harness apart.

D Walker · Postby **D Walker** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:14

Eric starter signal from the switch rarely has anything to do with slow cranking as long as your getting some voltage to the starter solenoid to trip it. I would check, in order:

Starter- an starter that sometimes cranks fast and then sometimes slow can have damaged. Excessive or repeated cranking really heats up a starter and will damage it. We often joke it is the most often abused part on a rotary.

Battery cables- I am not a fan of battery relocations, mostly because they are not often done well. For an RX7 I would used at least 1/0 welding cable. The positive cable needs to go to the starter, then to the fusebox, and I often redo the alternator wire as well. Running the cable to the stock battery cables (yeah, I have seen this done multiple times) is asking for issues. The Ground cable needs to go first to the chassis near the battery, then from there to the engine block, preferably near the starter, then to the chassis again, usually the firewall or near the fusebox. I only use copper lugs for all of this because the steel ones often used will rust and corrode and can make diagnosis very difficult.

Solenoid connection- its rare but I have actually seen the spade terminal on the wiring harness at the solenoid have issues with the wires being broken or the terminal itself being loose and making poor contact.

FDEEZ · Postby **FDEEZ** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:14

D Walker wrote:Eric starter signal from the switch rarely has anything to do with slow cranking as long as your getting some voltage to the starter solenoid to trip it. I would check, in order:

Starter- an starter that sometimes cranks fast and then sometimes slow can have damaged. Excessive or repeated cranking really heats up a starter and will damage it. We often joke it is the most often abused part on a rotary.

Battery cables- I am not a fan of battery relocations, mostly because they are not often done well. For an RX7 I would used at least 1/0 welding cable. The positive cable needs to go to the starter, then to the fusebox, and I often redo the alternator wire as well. Running the cable to the stock battery cables (yeah, I have seen this done multiple times) is asking for issues. The Ground cable needs to go first to the chassis near the battery, then from there to the engine block, preferably near the starter, then to the chassis again, usually the firewall or near the fusebox. I only use copper lugs for all of this because the steel ones often used will rust and corrode and can make diagnosis very difficult.

Solenoid connection- its rare but I have actually seen the spade terminal on the wiring harness at the solenoid have issues with the wires being broken or the terminal itself being loose and making poor contact.

Well written...I fully concur.

Postby **RX-7 Chris** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:14

Shadowden wrote:Because they all go to ground and the chasis is generally ground?

exactly ding ding ding

basically every wire finds it way to a ground at some point. So if a power wire goes to a motor it than travels through the motor and out to a ground wire.

Now if the wire was disconnected at all connections and was still grounding out than there is a short.

Eric, Let me know if you need me to stop by this weekend.

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