Project: Integra

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Ranger
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Project: Integra

Postby Ranger » Thu May 28, 2015 9:14

I've talked about this on the chat pretty much since I've been back, but now it's a real thing :) Story time!

Just picked up a 1992 Acura Integra RS. For those who might say, "why would you pick that car?" Easy, the '90-'93 Integra is much the same as the newer Integra that succeeded it, as well as Civics of that era, yet it's much cheaper. And it suits my goals well. It's lightweight, has decent torque for a 4-cylinder, and handles with the best of them. This will be a car mostly for open track days. The RS model is perfect for that, with manual windows and mirrors, no sunroof, no cruise control or ABS. The lightest Integra of them all. This was before Acura was really a luxury brand!

Anyone who's ever shopped for a project Honda will tell you it sucks. I drove four Integras before this: two that had obviously been modified and beat to hell, then returned to stock hapharzadly; one that had massive rust spots around the wheel wells and sunroof; one that felt quick, but needed a windshield, headlights, bumper, paint, etc. All priced over $2000.

Then I found this one.

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The only major thing wrong with it is a huge dent in the back. The guy I bought it from told me a construction truck with no license plates on it backed into it. Hit and run. It looks like it could be pulled using a spot welder and slide hammer, and I like DIY, so I decided I can live with that.

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The car has good paint, but it's not original. It's some Volvo color. Very similar to a factory Honda color, Horizon Gray Metallic. But I'm not a fan (and neither is my woman :o) so I figure since I will have to repaint the dented area, I'm doing the whole car. It was originally black, so that's what I'm going with.

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I am ordering suspension parts soon---coilovers, bushings, arms, camber kits, you name it---but first things first, I'm going to clean it! The backseats are destroyed and will be removed permanently. They aren't original (this car didn't have leather) and the belts don't work, anyway. The front seats are aftermarket, and it looks like the seat rails are too, so I want to inspect for safety. I'll remove both and give it a good shampooing and vacuuming.

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Note the extra, empty bolt holes in the seat rail. Presumably these are factory, and the bolt that's holding the rail in place was added.

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Dwduc
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Re: Project: Integra

Postby Dwduc » Thu May 28, 2015 9:14

Nice project, curious how light you can get it. I think they are only like 2600# stock.
I want to watch the dent pull and learn a bit. I have one I need to pull on my FD but don't want to practice on an FD!!
VTEC YO!!!!!!!

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Re: Project: Integra

Postby Shadowden » Fri May 29, 2015 9:14

Dwduc wrote:Nice project, curious how light you can get it. I think they are only like 2600# stock.
I want to watch the dent pull and learn a bit. I have one I need to pull on my FD but don't want to practice on an FD!!
VTEC YO!!!!!!!


You make it seem like a RHD FD is more rare than an Acura Integra :wacko: :lol:
I'm curious as to how well you can get it pulled also. Keep us informed. I know I like working on different cars (even if they have a funky Honda badge on them).

You didn't give any specifics on the suspension parts. What are your preferred parts?

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Re: Project: Integra

Postby RX-7 Chris » Fri May 29, 2015 9:14

that car will be a great start.

Have you tried seeing if you can get to the back side of the dent?

Really 2600lbs with manual everything? that's as heavy as my fully loaded RX-7 GSL-SE.
1984 RX-7 GSL-SE [size=84]My restomod project[/SIZE]


1964 Ford Galaxie 500XL flat black w/ white interior, 2 dr fastback, 390 thunderbird, C6 auto, 2500 rpm high stall converter, shift kit, AC, Holley 750 cfm

[size=100]RIP 1983 RX-7[/SIZE]

My Car Blog

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Ranger
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Re: Project: Integra

Postby Ranger » Fri May 29, 2015 9:14

Quoted weight you find online is around 2600 lbs. but that's not accurate. That is probably the weight that's on the door sticker, which is always higher than reality. There's not much information on the RS model, but it should be at least 100 lbs. lighter than the more-common LS (standard with sunroof and power windows, locks, and mirrors). Searching online, posted actual weights range from 2000 lbs. to 2500 lbs., loaded. I'm guessing that stock, mine will weigh around 2400-2500 with me in it. I'll do some weight reduction...remove power steering and power antenna, rear wiper, back seats, maybe burn / grind out the sound deadening. We'll see how far I want to go. It is a track car but I want it to be livable on the street, hah.

This car actually doesn't have VTEC :lol: I'm glad it doesn't. VTEC is nice for N/A but not for turbo. Lots of people will argue with that, but those are probably people with too much money to blow. What you can't argue is that the non-VTEC motors are much easier to tune for turbo, have much more torque, AND make more HP with less boost.

Suspension parts...here's my current build list.

Ground Control / Koni coilover set
Blox rear camber kit
Hardrace rear lower arms
Hardrace front camber kit
Hardrace bushing kit (for the arms that can't be replaced)
TruHart trailing arms

To be continued...

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Ranger
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Re: Project: Integra

Postby Ranger » Fri May 29, 2015 9:14

OK, so, progress!

I was right, these seat rails aren't factory and aren't mounted safely. Note the gap between the rail / bolt head and the floorpan :ph34r: I'll either have to find some better rails, or weld nuts onto the floorpan. There is nothing for that bolt to screw into but a hole in the floorpan.

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On to cleaning it up. Damn, she's a dirty girl. And I mean that both figuratively (inside was filthy) and literally (the woman who last regularly drove it left me these presents under the seat)

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Oh, and another sweet little gift in the ash tray

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Good thing about dirty girls, they clean up nicely and start looking pretty hot when they do :cool:

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I did look to see if you can get to the dent from the back side, and the answer is no. This is the bottom side of the hatch (looking up at the dent). There's not enough lip to hammer on, and the crease goes up much further anyway.

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So, dent pulling! I bought a stud welder from Harbor Freight, $100. The idea is grind all the paint off, weld studs around the crease, then attach a slide hammer which pulls on the stud, thereby pulling the metal out. It leaves holes, but it's safe and effective.

First time trying this so I ended up putting more holes in than I should have. But, it will need bondo to level it out anyway, so that'll fill them.

The bottom panel pulled out easily, but the crease on the hatch, not so much. I guess that metal is really thick, or perhaps the construction causes it to be stronger. The dent still isn't gone, but it's getting there.

Image

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RX-7 Chris
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Re: Project: Integra

Postby RX-7 Chris » Sun May 31, 2015 9:14

that's a good start
1984 RX-7 GSL-SE [size=84]My restomod project[/SIZE]


1964 Ford Galaxie 500XL flat black w/ white interior, 2 dr fastback, 390 thunderbird, C6 auto, 2500 rpm high stall converter, shift kit, AC, Holley 750 cfm

[size=100]RIP 1983 RX-7[/SIZE]

My Car Blog

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Ranger
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Re: Project: Integra

Postby Ranger » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:14

A bit more progress...more holes and I think I've got it as flat as it's going to get for now. Still need to grind off some of the high spots that the stud welder left. Then it'll be bondo time!

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I pulled the back seat out, it was just as dirty as the rest of the car:

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Forgot to take an "after" picture, but there is still a lot of dirt caked in there which would probably need to be ground off with a wire wheel. That's a bit dangerous because it likely would mean repainting the floor pan. The seat only weighs around 8-10 lbs total, so I think I'm going to search for a replacement. They are around $100 in good condition on eBay, though, so I'll probably wait until some pop up on Craigslist for cheap.

I can't decide if I want to keep rear speakers. One of them is blown so I'd need to take it out anyway. The door speakers work, and don't sound too bad. But the weight savings can't be much. "Crank it to eleven, blow another speaker..."

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Re: Project: Integra

Postby Shadowden » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14

Ranger wrote:
Image


Do I spy a 220 outlet on your wall? Nice. It's nice to have the larger power source for welders and compressors. I also like that the panel is right there. Wonder i I should bring a subpanel into my garage...

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Ranger
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Re: Project: Integra

Postby Ranger » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14

Yes indeed, although I haven't had a chance to use it. No welder or compressor :( It is nice having the panel there for sure. My garage is detached and was probably built with project cars or woodworking in mind.

Picking up a back seat from a parts car tonight. It matches my interior except the center section is gray, not dark blue like the rest of the cloth in the car. I've never seen another with dark blue cloth so I wonder if it was painted at some point? That's my plan for this new back seat. Using something like this:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0171

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Re: Project: Integra

Postby Shadowden » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14

Do you need a back seat in a track car? Seems like some cash you could throw toward new harnesses or seat for the driver.

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Re: Project: Integra

Postby Ranger » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14

It's $30 or I wouldn't bother. Hah. Anyway, it is a track-focused car, but I plan on keeping full interior, as it is also a street car for the foreseeable future. If I ever completely dedicate it to track days and track days only, that'll change.

Speaking of harness and seat, I've been thinking about just that. We talked about this on chat for a while but I'll post it anyway. This car has those sliding power seat belts that were so popular in the 90s. I can't stand them, and I question their safety.

I actually already have a fixed back FIA approved seat and Sparco 6 point harness I can put in. I might put a roll bar in eventually, in which case the seat and harness will definitely go in. But I'm not sure about the safety of a fixed back seat otherwise. Also, I can't remember if it was you or someone else who suggested mounting the shoulder belts to the OEM rear seat belt mounts, but I think the bolt holes aren't placed right. Either the downward angle would be wrong, and/or one belt would be stretched to the passenger side. I think I'll mock it up tonight---if the angle is OK, I imagine it has to be safer than the electric belts :rolleyes: No airbags in this car, so the seat belts are the only thing stopping me in a crash, gotta be as safe as possible!

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Re: Project: Integra

Postby Saul_Good » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14

Make it a full interior beast with AC and PS that can run as fast as track only cars (ie honda challenge, high TT cars). It's like how back in the day people had 10s full interior drag cars. So it's still something you can drive around somewhat comfortably on the street, but can still run circles around prepped cars. This also makes it easier down the road to set up your car for a specific class since you'll be removing parts here n there to fit in it, or run as-is and still spank them.

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Re: Project: Integra

Postby Shadowden » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:14

Ranger wrote:It's $30 or I wouldn't bother. Hah. Anyway, it is a track-focused car, but I plan on keeping full interior, as it is also a street car for the foreseeable future. If I ever completely dedicate it to track days and track days only, that'll change.

Speaking of harness and seat, I've been thinking about just that. We talked about this on chat for a while but I'll post it anyway. This car has those sliding power seat belts that were so popular in the 90s. I can't stand them, and I question their safety.

I actually already have a fixed back FIA approved seat and Sparco 6 point harness I can put in. I might put a roll bar in eventually, in which case the seat and harness will definitely go in. But I'm not sure about the safety of a fixed back seat otherwise. Also, I can't remember if it was you or someone else who suggested mounting the shoulder belts to the OEM rear seat belt mounts, but I think the bolt holes aren't placed right. Either the downward angle would be wrong, and/or one belt would be stretched to the passenger side. I think I'll mock it up tonight---if the angle is OK, I imagine it has to be safer than the electric belts :rolleyes: No airbags in this car, so the seat belts are the only thing stopping me in a crash, gotta be as safe as possible!



Yeah, for 30.00, it makes a lot of sense. I didn't suggest that mounting point for a harness. I'm pretty conservative when it comes to those types of things. One of the reasons my car is still stock as far as seats, steering wheel, seatbelts is that I won't run any individual thing without the rest. So when it is time to set up the seats, I will need to purchase seats (Recaro Pole Postion x2), harness (Takata x 2), rollbar and harness bar (Harddog/Bethania Garage), steering wheel, steering wheel hub, and QD. At least that's what I have in mind. As you know, that is a pretty serious chunk of money.

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Re: Project: Integra

Postby Ranger » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:14

Yes indeed, don't skimp on safety! Speaking of, I'm going to change the steering wheel (since it doesn't have an airbag anyway) and am looking into hubs. There's a lot of debate on what's safe for the street. The MOMO hub has a shape that's designed to collapse in a collision. Most are just solid aluminum. I think I might go with MOMO for that reason, but, it will also bring the steering wheel much closer to the seat. Not sure if I want that.

On another note, the tech geek in me has a lot to talk about. I'm looking into suspension parts, and Honda suspension design in general. I mentioned before that the DA Integra has much the same suspension as the DC Integra and EG Civic, but there are key differences. The DA actually has more in common with the late 80s EF Civic / CRX.

The DA front suspension has "radius rods" (AKA traction rods, AKA torsion rods) which go from the crossmember to the front lower control arms. The idea being that these help locate the FLCAs and keep them from twisting under heavy loads, ex. getting on throttle out of a corner, or launching from a stop. The DC Integra does NOT have these. Why? I don't know, and I haven't been able to find a straight answer. There are many, many companies which make "traction bars" that add this setup to the DC and EG. Just a small sample. This was once a standard thing for Honda and they stopped doing it in the 90s.

The geometry is also slightly different. The upper control arm has a "fork" which bolts to the bottom of the shock, locating it. This fork, along with the upper arm, is different between DA and DC.

Why point this out? Because, while there is a huge aftermarket for DC/EG front suspension, there's almost nothing for the DA. Consequently, DC suspension parts are also much cheaper. Boo. BUT as it turns out, the DC/EG suspension is a direct bolt up for the DA. I would only need the forks and upper arms. I am replacing shocks and upper arms anyway (aftermarket upper arms allow for easy camber adjustment). So the question is: Do it?

On one hand, it would mean cheaper parts, and more options. It would probably also increase resale value, since the DC is viewed as "better". On the other hand, it would mean spending more to replace parts I don't NEED to replace. It would also be bad for AutoX or Time Trials classing. Decisions, decisions.

A couple images from the FSM to help illustrate all this:

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The rear suspension is a different story. The only difference there is that the DA has a longer shock body, meaning more travel. That's a GOOD thing, especially when lowered. Putting DC shocks on a DA works, but lowers the car over an inch, in a bad way. My friend's DA has DC rear shocks on it with a coilover sleeve, and he had to raise the spring as high as it would go, just to keep from bottoming out.


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