RX-8 project car?

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RX-8 project car?

Postby roninsoldier83 » Fri May 29, 2015 9:14

So, since I sold my MSM, I've been looking for a project car. Several vehicles fit what I'm looking for and I've narrowed it down to a very short list:

-NC Miata, MR2 Spyder or RX-8. The S2000 would be on that short list if they weren't getting so expensive!

I've noticed that RX-8's have REALLY dropped in price here lately and they've peaked my interest. To all RX-8 and former RX-8 owners: would you buy another one?

I'm aware of the many nuances of the rotary (horrible fuel economy, oil consumption, cooling issues, ect), but haven't actually owned one, so I'm looking for recommendations from people who have actually put their money where their mouth is and owned one.

I'm not looking for a car with lots of power (obviously), but am curious, do they respond at all to bolt-ons? I've heard mixed reviews. I'm confident the '8 would satisfy all my handling needs/wants, and I think it probably has adequate power, but just in case: can you reasonably squeeze out an extra 10-20hp without breaking the bank?

Anything I should look for or avoid? Any feedback is much appreciated! Thanks!

-Brandon

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby Ranger » Fri May 29, 2015 9:14

Haven't owned an 8, so take this with a grain of salt, but I have done a ton of research on them as I was thinking about getting one myself, and have owned and been around lots of RX-7s. I decided not to get one, because as awesome as they are, for the money, I felt there were better options.

First things first, what's your goal for the project? Do you want something you can strip down and take to the track a lot? Or just a fun street car? Budget?

Owning a rotary isn't as bad as reputation suggests. They're actually reliable if well taken care of and operated correctly. But that's the thing: many owners don't do that. You HAVE to be willing to learn how a rotary works, and how to deal with all their quirks. And lack of effort to do that from previous owners, IMO, is why the prices have fallen so low. Buying one is a gamble unless it has complete documentation of its history. RX-7s went through the same thing.

Bolt-ons don't do much from what I've read. The Renesis engine is a product of 50+ years of evolution, and it shows. You might get 20-30 HP max with a full exhaust (deleting the cats), A/C delete, underdrive pulleys (according to many, not a good idea for the 8), tune, etc. And doing so is very expensive. You're better off building for turbo, but of course that isn't cheap, either. Good info here:

http://www.rx8club.com/new-member-forum ... ost4275583

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby roninsoldier83 » Sat May 30, 2015 9:14

Thanks for the link! There's a lot of good info there.

This is what I have in mind for my next weekend/project car:

1. I enjoy having 2 vehicles to switch back and forth between.
2. It will give me something to tinker with to take away my urge to modify my primary daily driver.
3. It would be something I could take to the track without the fear of it breaking and leaving me without a ride.
4. It should be something built for one sole purpose: fun. In this regard, nothing beats a nimble sports car on a windy mountain road!
5. Lastly, there is actually a practical reason for me having an extra vehicle: it would take down on the annual mileage I put on my daily driver (WRX). This seems silly, but here lately I've been putting as many as ~2000 miles a month on my daily (although that goes down drastically in the summer). Having a vehicle that I could drive ~5000+ miles a year would allow my car to stay under warranty longer and decrease my WRX's depreciation rate.

I had a few guidelines that defined what I am looking for:

-Absolutely under $10k all in. Preferably under $7-8k if possible.
-Relatively light weight.
-RWD. I have an AWD daily. I have no interest in mixing FWD with sporty track/mountain driving. RWD only.
-I would prefer a naturally aspirated motor for simplicity sake (aka I don't want turbo car problems on a car that might see a track one of these days). I would go supercharger before I would consider turbo, but still prefer NA.
-It has to run- no rolling shells.
-No salvage titles or cars that have been heavily abused, highly modded or generally beat to shit. Relatively clean cars are a must. I have no intentions of trying to fix someone else's mistakes. In my experience, its generally cheaper to buy a stock car than it is to pay to fix the mistakes of others that sold their cars out of frustration.
-Power doesn't interest me nearly as much as sporty handling. Neither interest me nearly as much as the smiles-per-hour factor.
-Convertibles are a plus as they have high smiles-per-hour factors, but they're not a necessity. By convertibles, I mean roadsters that were designed as convertibles. I have absolutely no interest in sedans/coupes that were modified from the factory to be convertibles; as those cars generally drive like shit and add a ton of weight to the car.
-Manual transmission only.

This would be a car that I would tinker with here and there, with no diabolical plans to make some insane high power monster. Suspension, wheels/tires, brakes and cooling/reliability mods would likely be the areas that would receive most of my focus. Well, if I went with an NC Miata or MR2 Spyder they would likely receive a motor swap eventually; namely "bolt-in" motors that are cheap and simple like the 2.5L Miata swap or the 2ZZ (180hp) motor swap in the MR2. Both essentially bolt right in. No options like that for the RX-8, but then again, it has a bit more power to begin with. As far as power goes, I would really like to have enough to not get pulled on by your average V6 powered minivan these days! Really, if I could get one of these cars to keep up with a modern V6 Camry I think it would be sufficient. Basically, enough power to be fun without overpowering the car; the idea being something I could grow into and not be too intimidating on the track.

No real budget for mods; those would just be something I would do over time. When I felt something was lacking after driving the car for a while, I would address it. The car would primarily be a street car that occasionally served a bit of double duty.

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby roninsoldier83 » Sat May 30, 2015 9:14

And I don't know if you've looked at RX-8 prices lately, but they're really starting to get cheap. Good example:
http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/5045726319.html

^^^2005 RX-8, 73k miles, clean Carfax, only $5995. That's a lot of car for the money.

I've considered several other cars: 350Z (too heavy, last one I drove I didn't care for), E36 M3, E30 3-series, ect... but for my purposes the RX-8, NC Miata and MR2 Spyder make the most sense. For the record I've already owned a NA Miata and NB MSM; I'd like to go a different route this time and if I'm getting a Miata, I fit in the NC a bit better (I'm about 6'2" 210 lbs).

Either way, the RX-8 had gone down in price to the point where its really starting to become an attractive option.... its really just the rotary that's making me a bit hesitant.

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby Huzer » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:14

Mechanically, other than the tranny, I had no issues with my RX8. I really liked that car and would get another. The rotary doesn't bother me either, and to me (as with most cars) it seems issues arise when people start modding them. It's in my top 5 for most fun vehicle I've owned, in no particular order, '67 Mustang, 900 Turbo, CRX si, Miata, RX8.

Get one! That CL ad, though, I bet was returned to stock. Wonder where the engine cover went.

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby Ranger » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:14

Yes, the tranny is weak on the 8. It's similar to the S2000 tranny and has all the same problems---popping out of gear (or getting stuck in one), grinding, "notchy" feeling, etc. It sounds like an 8 would fit you pretty well, though. Aside from the common problems, they're supposedly incredibly reliable if well taken care of, even on track. And if you like to tinker, I wouldn't worry much about owning a rotary. It takes some learning, but in the end, it's still an engine, and still has most of the same systems as any piston engine. I wouldn't expect it to have much passing power at our altitude though---on the street they feel a bit anemic due to lack of torque. But it probably would keep up with a minivan :)

I know you said RWD only, but as someone who used to feel exactly the same way and is now getting into Honda, I have to say, don't rule out FWD. An RSX Type S would fit you perfectly. IMO a better fit, actually---typical selling price around $5K-6K, reliable as it gets, parts and mods are cheap, and it can easily achieve 200-220 WHP with bolt on mods and a tune. On track or winding roads, they behave nothing like you'd expect FWD to. I'd say my Si handles as good as, if not better than, any RWD car I've owned or tracked---which includes an NA Miata, FD RX-7, Infiniti G35, Porsche 944, E36 M3, S14 240SX, probably others I'm forgetting. Can easily make the ass end rotate when you push it :)

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby roninsoldier83 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:14

Huzer wrote:Mechanically, other than the tranny, I had no issues with my RX8. I really liked that car and would get another. The rotary doesn't bother me either, and to me (as with most cars) it seems issues arise when people start modding them. It's in my top 5 for most fun vehicle I've owned, in no particular order, '67 Mustang, 900 Turbo, CRX si, Miata, RX8.

Get one! That CL ad, though, I bet was returned to stock. Wonder where the engine cover went.


Good to know, thanks buddy! I wouldn't really plan on modding it much further than maybe a test pipe and a solid tune from a reputable tuner... assuming its even worth it.

That CL car has already been sold! As cheap as RX-8's are going for, the manuals are getting tough to find locally.

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby roninsoldier83 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:14

Ranger wrote:Yes, the tranny is weak on the 8. It's similar to the S2000 tranny and has all the same problems---popping out of gear (or getting stuck in one), grinding, "notchy" feeling, etc. It sounds like an 8 would fit you pretty well, though. Aside from the common problems, they're supposedly incredibly reliable if well taken care of, even on track. And if you like to tinker, I wouldn't worry much about owning a rotary. It takes some learning, but in the end, it's still an engine, and still has most of the same systems as any piston engine. I wouldn't expect it to have much passing power at our altitude though---on the street they feel a bit anemic due to lack of torque. But it probably would keep up with a minivan :)

I know you said RWD only, but as someone who used to feel exactly the same way and is now getting into Honda, I have to say, don't rule out FWD. An RSX Type S would fit you perfectly. IMO a better fit, actually---typical selling price around $5K-6K, reliable as it gets, parts and mods are cheap, and it can easily achieve 200-220 WHP with bolt on mods and a tune. On track or winding roads, they behave nothing like you'd expect FWD to. I'd say my Si handles as good as, if not better than, any RWD car I've owned or tracked---which includes an NA Miata, FD RX-7, Infiniti G35, Porsche 944, E36 M3, S14 240SX, probably others I'm forgetting. Can easily make the ass end rotate when you push it :)


It's been years since I drove an RX-8... I really need to take one for a spin and see if its something I can live with powerwise, as I know that lightly modding it wouldn't hardly do anything for the car. Although since it would be a project/weekend car, rather than adding power I suppose I could just swap over to a set of 4.77 gears if I felt the car needed a bit more power/torque [multiplication]. I'm sure a set of light weight wheels and a slightly lighter flywheel couldn't hurt as well.

I've actually always like the old RSX Type-S, but people seem to be pretty proud of them these days! Case in point:
http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/5022304583.html
^^^109k miles, $13,500.

http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/5047133364.html
^^^$14,390

The cheap ones have close to 200k miles on them.... for that kind of money, I could get a comparable mileage S2000, which would make more sense to me. I've owned FWD cars that had lift-throttle oversteer (my old FoST did that stock!)... it's fun, but it's still not power-on oversteer! I prefer RWD dynamics.... I've driven the old RSX-S a few times back in the day and always remember having a smile on my face when I was done, but the amount of money people are asking for the "lower" mileage ones is just nuts.

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby Huzer » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14

Mine was up about 12hp, single digit torque, with simply a flash. The old Cobb base map was the map created off my car. I also had GM LS ignition coils installed as well. The only other work I did to is was RB sways/links and Mazdaspeed coilovers.

I never felt wanting for power, to be honest. I've always been more of a handling person over straight line grunt. Even as a fun car, there is acceptable room in the back seat, if needed.

I'd take one again, if I wasn't for the fact that I like to try different vehicles. The price point is certainly intriguing, though. For those prices, it's a great buy.

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby Ranger » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14

roninsoldier83 wrote:The cheap ones have close to 200k miles on them.... for that kind of money, I could get a comparable mileage S2000, which would make more sense to me. I've owned FWD cars that had lift-throttle oversteer (my old FoST did that stock!)... it's fun, but it's still not power-on oversteer! I prefer RWD dynamics.... I've driven the old RSX-S a few times back in the day and always remember having a smile on my face when I was done, but the amount of money people are asking for the "lower" mileage ones is just nuts.

Can't argue that, hah. Pretty much every Honda is going for over book value. You can find a clean RSX-S for around $6-7K if you wait it out, though. The ones you linked are actually the same car, and at a (sorely overpriced) dealership. Before I bought my Si I test drove an '06 with 100K miles, it was incredibly clean and going for $8500 at a dealership, private party would've been much less of course. Here's one that isn't bad:

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5027404103.html

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby roninsoldier83 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14

Huzer wrote:Mine was up about 12hp, single digit torque, with simply a flash. The old Cobb base map was the map created off my car. I also had GM LS ignition coils installed as well. The only other work I did to is was RB sways/links and Mazdaspeed coilovers.

I never felt wanting for power, to be honest. I've always been more of a handling person over straight line grunt. Even as a fun car, there is acceptable room in the back seat, if needed.

I'd take one again, if I wasn't for the fact that I like to try different vehicles. The price point is certainly intriguing, though. For those prices, it's a great buy.


I didn't realize your car picked up 12whp from just a reflash.... that's really not that bad for a strung-out NA motor! It's slightly above my budget, but with prices going down, something like this would likely be ideal:

http://www.mountainstatestoyota.com/use ... f2f611.htm

^^^$12.5k for a 2007 Sport manual with only 19k miles on it. Clean title/Carfax, 1-owner. If I could talk them down a bit more, that would probably be the car to buy.

I like the idea of being able to put the kiddos in the back in a pinch, or just to shake things up a bit. I also owned a couple of slow, momentum cars that I never really thought needed more power. Hell, mods for my WRX bring huge gains, but I haven't even remotely considered it. I really just want enough power to comfortably merge on the freeway and pull me out of tight corners. I'll be testing a RX-8 within the next month and will let you guys know what I think.

Ranger wrote:Can't argue that, hah. Pretty much every Honda is going for over book value. You can find a clean RSX-S for around $6-7K if you wait it out, though. The ones you linked are actually the same car, and at a (sorely overpriced) dealership. Before I bought my Si I test drove an '06 with 100K miles, it was incredibly clean and going for $8500 at a dealership, private party would've been much less of course. Here's one that isn't bad:

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5027404103.html


I don't necessarily think that's a bad value, but she's still got 169k miles on her. A person could get a Honda S2000 with similar miles on it for around the same price, if not ever so slightly higher... and between the two, I would take the S2000. If people weren't so proud of them, I might consider one, although in the back of my mind, there would always be a yearning for RWD. :D

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby Saul_Good » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14

I like the RX8. My only gripe would be paying premium for a car that gets at best 20mpg. I don't think it's all that slow (but then again i drive a miata) and the gearing is good enough to mask that lack of torque. The car is a handling beast with a functional backseat. I am waiting for the R3 prices to get a bit lower, and maybe just maybe i'd consider getting one.

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby roninsoldier83 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:14

Saul_Good wrote:I like the RX8. My only gripe would be paying premium for a car that gets at best 20mpg. I don't think it's all that slow (but then again i drive a miata) and the gearing is good enough to mask that lack of torque. The car is a handling beast with a functional backseat. I am waiting for the R3 prices to get a bit lower, and maybe just maybe i'd consider getting one.


I'm not overly concerned with the fuel economy, only because it wouldn't be my primary vehicle. My '15 WRX actually does pretty decent- I average around ~28mpg in mixed 50/50 driving. It easily gets over 30mpg on the freeway. Much better than the old EJ25 powered WRX's (like the wife's '13 WRX!). Certainly not bad for a ~3300 lbs sedan with full time AWD rated to hit 0-60mph in 4.8 seconds... although when I think about it that way, the RX-8 really does have piss poor fuel economy! :lol:

The R3 would be nice, but you're right, they're really commanding a premium right now. Too bad, as the R3 would be ideal- all the OEM reliability mods (3rd oil injector, ect), shorter 4.77 gears, sporty suspension and no sunroof to take up headroom!

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby GR-8 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:14

What's up. Just saw this post. I skimmed through really quick. The RX- is a fun car to drive. A issue I've had with both of mine and I would say is the biggest issue is the Transmission. Both are 2004 and under 60k miles Both have had the clutch pedal brackets replaced. Any bolt-ons really won't help that much with power. They tend to put down 180ish WHP and about 120sih WTQ. If I remember form a Dyno day back in the day that was about the average. my intake and exhaust didn't make a difference compared to anyone else. Tim (Huzer aka. miT) is right. The only really big bump you can get in power is with a tune. I have his old Accessport and it was probably the best mod I had done before I went FI.

The car is really fun to drive and handles really well. Probably the reason why I have 2 of them. I was driving the NA one all last year because I was to busy to touch the FI one that just needed a new oil feed line. Even though it didn't have the power the FI 8 had the NA was still a blast to drive. Still handled great. Not the fastest thing out there but it's quick and light enough. Just to give you an idea of NA power, back in 2005 I outran a new Mini Coopper S from a stop. I'm positive that it will take on a FRS/BRZ. Having both an FI and NA car there is only one thing that I wish Mazda was able to do. I wish that they were able to pass meet emissions requirements with a low boost application. With 5psi under it it would make the NA 8 just that much more fun to drive and would have made it more competitive to the 350Z. The NA may be under powered, especially up here, but take it through the mountains and your mind will be changed by it's handling. It likes to rev so don't be afraid to be high up in the power band.

I had an 8 and still have it, and I did buy another. So that answers your question. I would buy another 8. 11yrs in all I've had with the Blue (FI) RX-8 and I'll probably never sell that one. If you find a deal on a GT RX-8 I would recommend that that is what you get. The interior is really premium and nice. Both of mine are fully loaded and have every thing but the NAV. The Gen 2 has some updates like you said with the OMP and oil injectors. A "Better" Transmission. I still feel that the Gen 1 RX-8 has the better interior and it still holds up to many cars out 11yrs later. With the Sunroof I fit just fine. 6'1" 210ish. Other people shorter than me have complained. I don't know if it has anything to do with the power seat. I drop the rear of the seat and lift the front a bit so I'm not sliding out of it. That might make me lower then the non-power seats. It's something to test out. I have about an inch of room form the top of my head to the liner.

The maintenance on it really isn't that bad. Just check the oil midway between oil changes. 1qt is all I have ever needed between oil changes. (every 3 moths) Everything else you would keep an eye on is just like any other vehicle. I'm not a mechanic by any means but I can take care of my own cars. As long as there is basic knowledge, which I know you have WAY more than that, you will be fine. Some tips for test driving. Just make sure you let the car get to operating temps and take it for a pretty good test drive. Make sure it's a hot day! Turn the A/C on and see if you can live with that power loss. My transmission only acts up when it gets to operating temp. Listen for any creaking when you are pushing the clutch pedal. That will indicate that the bracket may be broken. There's probably more you should look into but I can't remember it all. Keep in mind that the RX-8 is part of that huge airbag recall for the steering wheel bag. If they have records of all the TSBs that were done that would be a bonus. If you can you should do a generic compression test on it. Sometimes you can't really tell if it's a bad motor. Funny thing about these rotaries is that they could be blown and you not really know it.

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby Shadowden » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:14

Nice post GR8!

I like the looks of the RX8. That's all I have to offer. From GR8's description, they seem to be just like my S2K, they aren't big torque, high horsepower machines, but they are a lot of fun to drive at high RPM.

Good luck!


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