RX-8 project car?

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roninsoldier83
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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby roninsoldier83 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:14

GR-8, thanks for the detailed review, I appreciate it bud! Just curious, where are you at in Denver/Lakewood? I'm actually off of Hampden/285 and Kipling. Any chance you might let my check out your NA 8 sometime?

After doing quite a bit of reading, it looks like the only real NA bolt-on that's worth it is a tune; not counting drivetrain lightening mods (lighter flywheel & lighter wheels/tires) and of course a shorter final drive. Fortunately, power isn't my main concern. I'd like it to be quick enough to be fun, but handling/tossability are more important features to me. Some of the most fun I've ever had behind the wheel was when I owned my past 2 Miata's. Neither was what I considered fast (the MSM was peppy though), but both were a riot to pitch around in the mountains!

Due to price point, I test drove a 350Z not too long ago... dealer gave me a BCA (borrowed car agreement) and I took it down one of my favorite mountain roads- Deer Creek Canyon Rd! The car had overly heavy & slow steering, lots of body roll (especially for how stiff it feels on the freeway!) and brakes that inspired no confidence for diving deep into a corner. It felt extremely heavy. It felt heavier than it actually is (~3200 lbs). My WRX is slightly heavier than that car, but I'm confident that I'm MUCH faster and MUCH more comfortable in the WRX than I was that Z. Not too long afterward I took an NC Miata on the same road and had more fun than I did in both of them (350Z and my WRX' although my WRX was a very close 2nd a few reasons: powering out of corners, staying extremely flat and having very responsive steering! It's damn good for an AWD sedan; but a light weight sports car it will never be!

The feeling of pushing a well balanced machine through a corner is what matters to me the most. I'd just like enough power to be fairly entertaining on corner exit and of course, to not get pulled on by modern minivans and sedate family sedans & SUV's!

I used to work at a Mazda dealership, but that was many years ago, around 2006/2007. I remember liking the 8, but headroom was pretty limited (I'm 6'2" 210 lbs) with a sunroof. I know I fit inside a sunroof car, but it would be very tough to fit inside one while wearing a helmet from what I remember. I also have a preference for cloth (vs leather) seats, so I would like to avoid the GT. Truly, the 2009+ R3 seems ideal; its too bad they are holding their value so well! If I picked one up it would likely be a Sport.

I go through cars quickly (I'd really like to break that habit one day!), but the cars I own are generally very well cared for. I stay on top of maintenance and never go WOT until the car (more specifically the oil) is up to full operating temperature. One of the things I really liked about my old BMW is it actually had an OEM oil temp gauge (vs most cars that only come with a water temp gauge).

Good tips on things to look for when driving an 8! Will a traditional piston-based compression tester work, or is there a special gauge needed to test rotary compression?

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby GR-8 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:14

About to run out of battery so ill try and keep it short. I haven't really updated my profile but I'm just in Denver now. WashPark area. My clutch is out on my N/A currently but when it is on the road again I will let you know. Take a small trip up Lookout or whatever other mountain road that is close.

As for the compression test..... a regular piston tester will work decently enough. Test one chamber at a time. Make sure to do the same process on each chamber just to keep things consistent. Test either both Leading plugs or both Trailing. I usually don't pull any fuses to cut fuel. If you first press the gas pedal to the floor before you crank that will cut the fuel and is also the procedure for de-flooding. While you are cranking just keep the pressure valve on the gauge pressed in. Keep an eye on the gauge..... you should be able to see the needle jumping for each of the 3 combustions per stroke. Just make sure that each of the chambers gives you about the same reading. Write the numbers down and keep tabs on if its the front or tear housing. Compare the numbers front and rear rotors. As long as each of the 3 chambers are consistent, about a +-5psi you should be good. Also as long as both housings have comparable numbers I would say its good.

Don't worry too much about the actual numbers or comparing the a shop manual graph. Our elevation, strength of the battery and how fast the starter cranks all play a part on the actual numbers you would see. As long as the numbers consistent it should be good. If you have 2 low readings and 1 higher in the same chamber then its probably blown.

Also, I did one SCCA event and with the helmet I fit alright. I tend to sit straighter and closer than most people my height. I like my knees bent slightly when I drive. So if you're a sloucher you should be alright. Bring a helmet if you want to test it out.

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby roninsoldier83 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:14

Thanks for the tips buddy, I appreciate it! Let me know when the car is up and running; I'd be more than happy to come check it out! I'll be sure to bring a helmet and test it out.

Thanks again!

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby roninsoldier83 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:14

So I finally had time to test drive an RX-8 today.... For reference, it was a 2007 Sport manual (read: no sunroof) with 49k miles on the clock. This particular car didn't seem to have been very well cared for. There were a few issues:

-The interior was pretty scratched/torn up (torn shift boot, ect) and the seats had dark greasy looking stains on them.
-The shift knob was twisted side-ways and was relatively loose (not fully screwed on). I fixed this within a few seconds, but still.
-Huge scratch marks on passenger side.
-The engine cover was missing.
-The whole time I was driving it, an odd indicator light was on. Fortunately it had an owners manual in it and apparently it was a low coolant level light. The car ran fine, temp needle never got past the mid-way point/no signs of overheating, but it was worth noting.
-One time under full throttle the add oil light came on for about ~10 seconds, then turned off. That was the last full throttle pull I made. It didn't come on during any other pulls I had made previously.
-The A/C didn't hardly work. I know these cars have notoriously weak A/C, but damn, I felt like I could have cooled the car better with a cheap $5 fan from Walmart. I'm not exaggerating. As such, A/C was kept off pretty much the whole time.

To say the previous owner might not have cared for it very well would likely be an accurate statement.

With all of that said, the car actually felt pretty healthy. Overall I really enjoyed driving this car! Breakdown:

*PROS*:

-The motor! I was shocked as well! Is it fast? Certainly not. Peppy enough to be fun? Absolutely! Sure, the car doesn't a lot of torque or power, but revving the motor to 9000rpm is still a hoot! I even got the tires to chirp just a bit on a couple of quick 1-2 shifts at redline. The engine is smooth and very responsive and the short gearing helps make up for the lack of torque. Although it is a good idea for Mazda to have installed that shift “beep”, as the motor is so smooth it feels like it wants to rev well beyond redline. Good throttle response... and I was shocked, as I even enjoyed the noise it made! Its a loud little motor when wound up, but definitely unique.

Will it smoke a 350Z in a straight line? Nope (especially not at higher speeds). It won't even come close to keeping up with my WRX, but again, its certainly quick enough to be fun and it felt a good bit faster than the last NC Miata I drove. Further more, the engine actually had a lot more character than the 350Z and the NC Miata. If nothing else, its interesting, responsive and fun to rev up! And it felt fast enough to pass minivans to boot! Although it still wouldn't quite keep up with a newer V6 powered Honda Accord haha!

-Handling. This car handles well. Very well. The suspension is a good compromise; its very controllable and fairly flat, while maintaining better ride quality than I would have expected. It seems to control body roll to a similar level as my WRX, although it was much flatter than the last 350Z and NC Miata I drove. It also rode better on the freeway than the Z and Miata (for different reasons), which was shocking.... although I think my WRX might be just a hint flatter and ride ever-so-slightly better than the RX-8; but we're really splitting hairs here, they're actually remarkably close.

It had one handling trait that my WRX doesn't have: this car wants to rotate! I found my way to a large, hidden, empty parking lot to push it just a bit... and it was a riot! It was easy to get the rear end out, but not scary or uncontrollable at all; as it was able easy to get the rear end back in line without hardly trying. The tail comes out in a natural feeling, helpful way. The car is very neutral and a lot of fun to pitch around! My WRX will claw its way around a corner, while this car just wants to dance. Very different approaches.

-Steering. Mazda got it right! Yes, it has EPS, but it still had decent feeling to it. Much better than the last S2000 I drove. I thought it was also weighted very well. Not quite as heavy as my WRX, but certainly not “light” or overly boosted. The steering rack ratio isn't actually all that quick- 16.4:1... but it doesn't feel slow. As a matter of fact, sawing away at the wheel was a joy. It felt very connected and direct.

-The drivetrain. I know these cars are known to have tranny issues. This car had none. It shifted pretty smooth and was easy to find gears. The pedals have good spacing for heel-toe downshifts, although I couldn't seem to get them right; this has nothing to do with the car, as the car did nothing wrong- the pedals were great, the motor revved easily and it was easy to find gears. The problems were 1) I wore dress shoes (poor choice, but necessary today) and 2) the gears are so short that I found myself not giving it enough gas/RPM to rev-match smoothly! I'm not used to gears this short.... it would take some time for me to get used to it, and not in a bad way!

Although I did have a couple of complaints about the drivetrain: the silly rotary-shaped shift knob is sub-par and its hard to tell if its in reverse or not, even with the OEM lock-out.

-Driving position and seats. The seats fit me very well and held me in place while cornering. I liked them a lot; they were much better than the seats in the Z and Miata. I was also able to get pretty comfortable without much of an issue. You sit low in the car and it feels very sporty. Although the large front wheel wells/arches make it easy to place where the front wheels are.

-Back seat. It has one. Its not the greatest, but its there.


CONS:


-Biggest con- headroom! With no sunroof and me sitting in a comfortable position, I still only had about ~1.5 inches or so of extra headroom. Having a sunroof is supposed to take away about 1.5 inches of headroom.... and most RX-8's came with a sunroof.... So I would pretty much need to find a hardtop car. Fortunately, according to this 2004 RX-8 brochure, it looks like all manual transmission RX-8's come standard with a LSD:
http://www.gerhardstein.net/rx8/2004_rx8_brochure.pdf

^^^No traction/stability control for the base model; also no Xenon headlights, fog lights, Nav, Bose stereo, leather, ect. Bonus? No extra weight and useless electronic nannies that I would toggle off frequently anyway! Note to self: buy a base, or Sport package (tough to find).

-I don't know if it was just this car, or all of them, but the A/C really was the worst I've ever seen in a modern car.

-Rear visibility left a bit to be desired. Not the worst car I've ever been in, but far from great rear visibility.

-Obviously the engine has a lot of drawbacks (reliability, fuel economy, oil consumption, ect), but I didn't really notice any of them on my test drive. I suppose at low RPM's the motor didn't really pull very hard, but again, it least it had decent throttle response.

-As mentioned above, I didn't care for the shift knob's odd shape or the fact that it was hard to tell if it was in reverse. Very easy fix.

-While it has a back seat, its really limited to children and very small adults. With the front seat fully adjusted it would still be a bit cramped for my 6 year old son back there! Although I will admit, it has a Ford Mustang's back seat beat pretty easily!


Overall, I really enjoyed the car! I found myself with a big grin on my face the majority of the time I was driving it. Was it fun? Absolutely! More fun than a Miata? Tough question. The last Miata I test drove had a power retractable hardtop... with the top up, the RX-8 was a LOT more fun! With the top down, well, it's complicated. Its hard to beat a roadster in nice weather on an empty road....

Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to take the RX-8 to my personal proving grounds- aka Deer Creek Canyon Rd... but from what I could tell, it felt more composed than the last NC Miata I drove. It's much more nimble than I would have expected from a car with a long wheelbase (106.4” vs 91.7” for the NC Miata). It didn't seem to give anything up to the Miata in the corners, but it felt a lot more stable and composed at speed.

Speaking of speed, it felt noticeably quicker than the last NC Miata I drove. Rated ¼ mile times:

2006 Miata:
-Car and Driver- 15.0@91mph
-Motor Trend- 15.1@91.2mph

2004 RX-8:
-Car and Driver- 14.9@95mph
-Motor Trend- 14.8@94.3mph

It should be noted that if healthy, rotaries are known to continually make more power as they age. Car and Driver's long term 2004 RX-8 only ran a 15.1@93mph when new, but at 40k miles it ran 14.6@96mph. So maybe the car I drove just picked up a few more ponies over the years?

Either way, even if the cars are very close on paper, they felt very different. The Miata had decent mid-range torque, but fell on its face up top; whereas the RX-8 didn't have much in the way of low/mid range, but had plenty of good pull above 5000rpm.

Verdict? The RX-8 just made its way to the top of my list! I still have to at least try and find a manual MR2 Spyder to take for a spin; but at this point, the RX-8 is my #1 ranked contender.

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Re: RX-8 project car?

Postby GR-8 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:14

Glad you got to test one out. Mine is still out of commission. I ordered a new clutch line. The one in there is split somewhere. Fluid just squirts out before the slave cylinder. Planning on getting the new one in this weekend seeing that it came in today. I can address some of your concerns below that you mentioned


-The engine cover was missing.
I don't know how this happens but I have seen it with a lot of RX-8s. People throw them out because they think it'll help with cooling. Mazda has it there for a reason I believe. Not just to cover things up. They also tend to lose the cover for the battery as well.

-The whole time I was driving it, an odd indicator light was on. Fortunately it had an owners manual in it and apparently it was a low coolant level light. The car ran fine, temp needle never got past the mid-way point/no signs of overheating, but it was worth noting.
There is no way for you to fix this accept to buy a new reservoir. The sensor is built into the tank and goes bad. This is very common. Mine will stay off in the city but once I hit the highway it comes on. Don't worry too much about it. Both of mine do it.

-One time under full throttle the add oil light came on for about ~10 seconds, then turned off. That was the last full throttle pull I made. It didn't come on during any other pulls I had made previously.
The only reason that it came on was because it's pretty low. So when you got to high RPM it was pumping more oil out of the pan and triggered the level sensor. That's a good indication that you should dump a quart in to make it till your next oil change. Best to add it before you see the light though.

-The A/C didn't hardly work. I know these cars have notoriously weak A/C, but damn, I felt like I could have cooled the car better with a cheap $5 fan from Walmart. I'm not exaggerating. As such, A/C was kept off pretty much the whole time.That's really odd because both of mine work pretty well. Kills the motor when on but it is cool. I remember on RX-8 club someone had posted a certain routine you do with the stereo buttons and it something would flash or beep or doors lock and it was to make the A/C colder somehow. I did this and it did work. But you need the stock stereo to do it. I forgot the combo of buttons but it worked and came from a shop manual.


I hope all that helps a bit. Don't be shocked @ your 1/4 mile when/if you go to Bandimere in it. You will be around 16.3 sec - 16.5. There was a guy that claims he got 15.9 in his RX-8. Maybe he did. He was probably 100lbs lighter than me and also had the base model where I have all the bells and whistles. Not sure on the weight differences between the trims.

Edit - Here is a link to a A/C reset. Maybe I'll try this. Different method of buttons than I used. http://www.rx8blog.com/reset-ac-for-mazda-rx-8/

I can't seem to find the other one. But I do remember having to press the stereo buttons. Maybe they changed the process with a reflash for those with aftermarket stereos. IDK


Edit 2 - I forgot about this too. If it's warm try moving the temp knob over to heat for a second or two when you have the A/C on and then move it back to cool. This should help. I do it on both of mine. It triggers something and starts to blow colder air.


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