Long-term power options for Miata

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Long Term power options for my Miata:

Turbo-charge stock 1.6L
6
29%
Build Naturally Aspirated 1.8L
0
No votes
Swap V8
10
48%
Other: please list below
5
24%
 
Total votes: 21

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roninsoldier83
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Long-term power options for Miata

Postby roninsoldier83 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

So, small parts are starting to trickle in for the Miata in order to get it back up to par. The rear window has been replaced, she's being painted (replaced hood & headlight lids) as we speak, picked up new-to-me cooling fans/relay/temp sending unit, a set of Hawk HPS pads, and a handful of other small parts that should have been replaced by the previous owner. Needless to say, the car will be coming together quickly. At that point, I'll be changing fluids, throwing the new pads on the car, adjusting the coilovers, getting a custom alignment, picking up new tires, and taking this thing to play at local autoX meets :)

However, anyone that knows me well, knows that I can't leave well enough alone haha.... and long term, I'm sure I'm going to want more power. However, since I would like to plan it as a long term build, I have plenty of time to put together a nice setup. Although, at the same time, I picked the car up for $2200, have already invested a decent chunk of change into it just getting it up to par, and am not looking to break the bank on a 21 year old Miata haha, so please keep that in mind.

At this point, I don't have any particular power number to hit in mind, but will say the stock 1.6L with intake/exhaust/wires leaves a good bit to be desired haha. I'm thinking if the bugger can break into the 14's at Bandimere, that would likely be enough to sate my desire for power LOL. To be clear, this will not be a drag car, I'm just using the 1/4 mile as a reference for power/weight.

The way I see it, while a Monster LS1 swap would be awesome, even long term, I think it's a bit more than I'm willing to spend. As such, I see 3 major viable options for long term power:

-Turbo the factory 1.6L, although I have little preference on the kit to accomplish this (FM, Voodoo, BEGI, GReddy ect). Either way, from what I've looked into, if I take this route, I would likely pick up a MegaSquirt PnP Standalone ECU (which I would purchase/tune prior to buying a turbo kit/use to run NA for a while).

-Fully built naturally aspirated 1.8L, likely out of a 99-01 as they apparently have a higher flowing head, and if I really wanted to get into autoX, this seems to be a really popular setup for NA Miata's to run in CSP. This won't make the power/torque of the other options, but there is something appealing about a high revving 1.8L in a car like the Miata. Although, I haven't taken the time to price this option out (not sure if I'm baller-status enough to fork over cash for ITB's ect haha).

-V8 swap, likely a Ford 302 or equivalent. I like the idea of the NA V8, but this also seems like by far the most expensive option available by a decent margin. I really dig Ron's car, but I have a feeling I wouldn't like to see how high the bill got up to on that one :lol:


So, I won't be doing any of the above overnight, or even within a couple months, but at this point, I think it's good to start putting a plan together to avoid buying parts I might not need/be able to use later on down the line (i.e. don't want to pickup something like a PnP standalone ECU just to have to ditch it later ect).

At this point, I'm leaning towards turbocharging the 1.6L, but would like to get the opinions of my fellow CMZC'ers. It would also be nice to maybe get a ride in member's cars that are running turbocharged NA's as well as V8 swaps.

If anyone has any alternate ideas, please feel free to share, and if you have performed one of the above and don't mind sharing approximate costs to give me an idea, it would be greatly appreciated :)

So, what thinks you? :)

Thanks in advance!

-Brandon
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RX-7 Chris
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Postby RX-7 Chris » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

I say put in a motor from a 335xi, I know where you can get one.

But really I say turbo the 1.6 only because you always seem to be a turbo person.
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Postby roninsoldier83 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

RX-7 Chris wrote:I say put in a motor from a 335xi, I know where you can get one.

But really I say turbo the 1.6 only because you always seem to be a turbo person.


LOL, I think shoe-horning a V8 into the engine bay would be easier than trying to swap in the twin-turbo inline-6 N54 motor haha! A hell of a lot less complex as well :D

I actually really enjoy NA motors, but they just don't give a person the same bang-for-your-buck you're going to get with a turbocharger. That, and up here, we all know turbo cars have a pretty big advantage over NA motors.... I like the reduced under-hood temps of an NA, as well as the perceived long term comparative reliability, but for making power, it's just not as cost effective.
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ecam8000
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Postby ecam8000 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

Buy a helmet!

Take it out the way it is, and then bum rides and drives from similar powered cars. I bet those S2000's would give you an idea of an all out high dollar 1.8 or stroker would run. Chris S. out of the Springs runs a NA with a supercharger (fun to watch). But first get you and your helmet to the track.
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Postby roninsoldier83 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

ecam8000 wrote:Buy a helmet!

Take it out the way it is, and then bum rides and drives from similar powered cars. I bet those S2000's would give you an idea of an all out high dollar 1.8 or stroker would run. Chris S. out of the Springs runs a NA with a supercharger (fun to watch). But first get you and your helmet to the track.


LOL!

Absolutely! I'll be picking up a helmet very shortly, and will be playing with the car/taking it out the way it is (after maintenance that is), I'm just thinking long term. Good point though.

Thanks for the input Eric :)
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erod550
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Postby erod550 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

I voted other. If you're talking long term I would say go with a built 1.8 and boost the crap out of it. Or stroke it to 2.0 even and add boost. Screw N/A if you're not going with a V8, especially at this altitude, and if you build the motor you can throw a crapload of boost at it and it will take it happily. That's a project I would like to eventually do with mine. Get a 1.8 block and as I have the cash slowly build it and get the parts together, and when you're done you'll easily have a 300whp monster that will hang with just about any N/A V8 swap up here, while still getting 25+ mpg when you stay out of the throttle. One downside is that it's a little harder to control the behavior of the rear end with boost than with N/A since the powerband is not as linear, so it might not be the best for autocrossing, but it would be a beast on a road course.
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Postby erod550 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

Don't know if this will work or not but it should since you are a miata.net member. This dyno is a built 1.8L with a GT3271 running 16psi. I'm sure you could throw even more boost at it if you wanted to.

Image
2015 Ironman Silver Veloster Turbo - Bone stock and staying that way

1990 Crystal White Miata - Beater - Bignose 1.6L Swap, Robbins Top w/Glass Window, E-Codes, Air Horns, Brembo Rotors



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Postby rugger » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

I think that I am biased. :D
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Postby roninsoldier83 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

erod550 wrote:I voted other. If you're talking long term I would say go with a built 1.8 and boost the crap out of it. Or stroke it to 2.0 even and add boost. Screw N/A if you're not going with a V8, especially at this altitude, and if you build the motor you can throw a crapload of boost at it and it will take it happily. That's a project I would like to eventually do with mine. Get a 1.8 block and as I have the cash slowly build it and get the parts together, and when you're done you'll easily have a 300whp monster that will hang with just about any N/A V8 swap up here, while still getting 25+ mpg when you stay out of the throttle. One downside is that it's a little harder to control the behavior of the rear end with boost than with N/A since the powerband is not as linear, so it might not be the best for autocrossing, but it would be a beast on a road course.


I like where you're going with this :D

Although that idea is a bit pricier than the turbo the 1.6L option, long term, it's still foreseeable.
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Postby roninsoldier83 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

erod550 wrote:Don't know if this will work or not but it should since you are a miata.net member. This dyno is a built 1.8L with a GT3271 running 16psi. I'm sure you could throw even more boost at it if you wanted to.

Image


Wow, and on what appears to be a Mustang dyno no less... a decent amount of lag, but it's not like it would be a daily driver, so it really wouldn't matter haha. Although I am curious about how much a setup like that would set a person back...

rugger wrote:I think that I am biased. :D


I would say so haha! :D

If I had your fabrication skills, along with you access to equipment, I might be leaning more towards the V8 swap route :lol:

If you don't mind me asking, how much would a setup like yours end up costing someone like myself?
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Postby chickenwafer » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

Can I vote for a rotary swap? Hehe

Really, if it's possible, see if you can get a ride in a turbo Miata and a V8 swapped Miata (we have at least 2 in the club, and 2 turbo Miata's I believe as well), and see what you like best. Anyone can benchrace and play "what if's?" and yada yada yada, but I think going for a ride is the best way to know if you like the power delivery and driveablitly.

For me, personally, I'm a big fan of turbos, especially at this altitude, they just have a major advantage over an NA motor and get you the most bang for you buck.
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Postby RX-7 Chris » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

I have the perfect swap for you: http://www.coloradomazdaclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6946

the motor is already even built for a turbo or supercharger if you wanted it later on.
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Postby roninsoldier83 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

chickenwafer wrote:Can I vote for a rotary swap? Hehe

Really, if it's possible, see if you can get a ride in a turbo Miata and a V8 swapped Miata (we have at least 2 in the club, and 2 turbo Miata's I believe as well), and see what you like best. Anyone can benchrace and play "what if's?" and yada yada yada, but I think going for a ride is the best way to know if you like the power delivery and driveablitly.

For me, personally, I'm a big fan of turbos, especially at this altitude, they just have a major advantage over an NA motor and get you the most bang for you buck.


Yeah, I'm with you, maybe next time I show up to a meet, I'll see if I can bum a couple rides. :)
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Postby roninsoldier83 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

RX-7 Chris wrote:I have the perfect swap for you: http://www.coloradomazdaclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6946

the motor is already even built for a turbo or supercharger if you wanted it later on.


I like that you're thinking outside of the box, but I think I'm going to stick with a piston motor. Thanks for the idea though!
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Postby rugger » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14

roninsoldier83 wrote:
If you don't mind me asking, how much would a setup like yours end up costing someone like myself?


This is what I have spent:

$700 - car, i stole it :cool:
$1500 - SBC engine (heads + block + machining)
$500 - Muncie transmission
$1200 - Martin's rear end kit
$200 - Martin's front springs
$400 - custom headers
$150 - PRC radiator
$50 - air cleaner
$30 - master cylinder
$340 - Centerforce dual friction clutch
$200 - misc clutch related items
$130 - Howe hydraulic throwout bearing
$250 - custom drive shaft
$200 - master bushing kit
$800 - hardtop
$500 - HardDog Hardtop rollbar
$200 - misc hardware
$100 - fabricated tranny mount
$300 - gauges/speedo cable
$400 - ignition system
$500 - used wheels + new Kumho tires

I'm going to say between $8500-$10000. And that's with me getting the car for dang near free. But, that does include the hardtop which cost me more than my car did. *rollseyes*
If I counted my time then I'd be in the $20K range. But, it is fun to me so I don't count it. :D

edit: it is crazy how things add up
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