My car is smoking and here's a video.
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SpeedRacer
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Well its not THAT fast but if you remove the downpipe it should smoke and that should be the easiest way to tell i'd think? or leave downpipe on and unattach the 02 sensor or something and let it come outa there..
Heavy duty adjustable dog leashes
http://www.TitanTuff.com
http://www.TitanTuff.com
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arctic_blue83
Alright dammit, we've been over this... it's common on these cars with no cats left in them. The turbo seals suck. Let me break this down to you, if you put the stock cats back on... it's still going to "smoke" per se, the only difference is, that you won't see it, as the smoke will be absorbed into the cats... putting the cats on will NOT make the problem go away, or somehow mysteriously make the turbo seals better, all it's going to do is not make the smoke visible to you. That's all. Guess what else? The smoke you're seeing, it doesn't mean your turbo is going to die any faster than it would with the cats on (well, unless you're seeing higher boost pressures, but that's a different story), actually, taking the cats out, is going to lower your EGT's, decreasing temps inside the turbine housing... which, in the long run, will help LENGTHEN the life of your turbo. The seals are garbage, get over it.
When we installed a DP on Jake's car (Spatty, who is now talking about getting a Legacy GT?!?), his car smoked... when I took out my cats on my Speed6, I didn't really notice smoke (didn't really pay attention closely either), but was told by others that it had a little bit of white smoke while I was driving. It's not a big deal.
To Eric... the downpipe itself has NOTHING to do with the smoke. The only factor here is the leaky turbo seals on the POS stock K04 turbo, some are worse than others. He could run a CP-E catless DP, or Cobb (when released), or any other DP he wanted, as long as it was catless, he would still have smoke. Wanna know how to have a downpipe, a car that has crappy seals, and not smoke? Leave in a stock cat, or install a high flow cat. Those are your options.
Actually... the best solution here.... Josh, just expedite your long terms plans... toss the POS K04, and pick up a GT3071R. Problem solved
Sure, you might run into other problems... like needing to tune the car, and maybe running out of fuel, ect, but no more smoke 
Seriously though, if I had to rate turbos in order of what I consider to be "best to worst", it would probably go like this:
Garrett>Mitsubishi>IHI>BorgWarner/Hitachi
Kind of sad, Mitsubishi makes shitty cars, but some VERY decent turbos. Go give you some examples of how you can tell what turbo is what:
Garrett: GT3071R, GT35R, GT2871R, GT3076R, T3/T4, T25, GT25 (IIRC, the "G" in GT just stands for ball-bearing, the first couple numbers in the 4-digit turbos stand for the exhaust housing, bigger number being a bigger hotside, the second 2 numbers are the compressor housing)
Mitsubishi: TD04-16G, TD05-18G, TD06-20G, TD05-20G (just like Garrett, the first part just means the turbine housing (hotside), higher number is bigger, a TD06 hotside would be bigger than a TD04, and the second numbers are for the compressor housing)
IHI: VF30, VF39, VF43, VF22, VF48 (no real pattern here, just a guessing game haha)
BorgWarner/Hitachi: K03, K04 ect (Bigger number=bigger turbo)
A lot of tuner companies just use parts from different turbo manufacturers, and tailor them to meet a certain spec, and then resell them... like for instance, GReddy makes a kit for the RX-8, and they call the turbo a "T618Z", when it's really just a modified Mitsubishi turbo, and is basically a TD06-18G. For comparison, my car comes with a IHI VF39, to give you an idea of how big it is, it's around the same size as a Mitsubishi TD05-Super16G, a "Super" 16G, would just be an 18G compressor wheel, that's shoved inside a 16G compressor housing. Which is bigger than a K04. You can imagine how small a K03 is... remember that VW dyno day, and how small their numbers were... most of them were running K03 turbos lol. Talk about tiny.
Generally though, Garrett has the highest quality turbos, and also the largest for most street applications. Ever heard of a turbo in a magazine called the "Disco Potato"? It's a Garrett GT2871R IIRC, which is a GREAT option for a street turbo, more specifically on small, 2.0L> cars, as it spools fast, but pushes decent CFM's and doesn't taper that bad up top. Not the best for drag racing, but AWESOME for road racing/autoX. Although, most people recommend on the Speed's you guys run a GT3071/76R, as it suits the characteristics of the 2.3L motor. Me personally, I would go with the 3071, just because the smaller compressor housing will make a more streetable, spool faster (about 300-500rpm or so), but still make big power... although, on the top end, the 3076 will murder it.
Anyway, enough of my ranting, don't worry about a little white smoke, as we know it's from the turbo seal, just keep an eye on your coolant levels from time to time. If you're planning on running a larger turbo within the next year, I would just get over it, as it really won't matter. Just my $.02
BTW, who did the install? If you did it yourself, you should have invited me
When we installed a DP on Jake's car (Spatty, who is now talking about getting a Legacy GT?!?), his car smoked... when I took out my cats on my Speed6, I didn't really notice smoke (didn't really pay attention closely either), but was told by others that it had a little bit of white smoke while I was driving. It's not a big deal.
To Eric... the downpipe itself has NOTHING to do with the smoke. The only factor here is the leaky turbo seals on the POS stock K04 turbo, some are worse than others. He could run a CP-E catless DP, or Cobb (when released), or any other DP he wanted, as long as it was catless, he would still have smoke. Wanna know how to have a downpipe, a car that has crappy seals, and not smoke? Leave in a stock cat, or install a high flow cat. Those are your options.
Actually... the best solution here.... Josh, just expedite your long terms plans... toss the POS K04, and pick up a GT3071R. Problem solved
Sure, you might run into other problems... like needing to tune the car, and maybe running out of fuel, ect, but no more smoke Seriously though, if I had to rate turbos in order of what I consider to be "best to worst", it would probably go like this:Garrett>Mitsubishi>IHI>BorgWarner/Hitachi
Kind of sad, Mitsubishi makes shitty cars, but some VERY decent turbos. Go give you some examples of how you can tell what turbo is what:
Garrett: GT3071R, GT35R, GT2871R, GT3076R, T3/T4, T25, GT25 (IIRC, the "G" in GT just stands for ball-bearing, the first couple numbers in the 4-digit turbos stand for the exhaust housing, bigger number being a bigger hotside, the second 2 numbers are the compressor housing)
Mitsubishi: TD04-16G, TD05-18G, TD06-20G, TD05-20G (just like Garrett, the first part just means the turbine housing (hotside), higher number is bigger, a TD06 hotside would be bigger than a TD04, and the second numbers are for the compressor housing)
IHI: VF30, VF39, VF43, VF22, VF48 (no real pattern here, just a guessing game haha)
BorgWarner/Hitachi: K03, K04 ect (Bigger number=bigger turbo)
A lot of tuner companies just use parts from different turbo manufacturers, and tailor them to meet a certain spec, and then resell them... like for instance, GReddy makes a kit for the RX-8, and they call the turbo a "T618Z", when it's really just a modified Mitsubishi turbo, and is basically a TD06-18G. For comparison, my car comes with a IHI VF39, to give you an idea of how big it is, it's around the same size as a Mitsubishi TD05-Super16G, a "Super" 16G, would just be an 18G compressor wheel, that's shoved inside a 16G compressor housing. Which is bigger than a K04. You can imagine how small a K03 is... remember that VW dyno day, and how small their numbers were... most of them were running K03 turbos lol. Talk about tiny.
Generally though, Garrett has the highest quality turbos, and also the largest for most street applications. Ever heard of a turbo in a magazine called the "Disco Potato"? It's a Garrett GT2871R IIRC, which is a GREAT option for a street turbo, more specifically on small, 2.0L> cars, as it spools fast, but pushes decent CFM's and doesn't taper that bad up top. Not the best for drag racing, but AWESOME for road racing/autoX. Although, most people recommend on the Speed's you guys run a GT3071/76R, as it suits the characteristics of the 2.3L motor. Me personally, I would go with the 3071, just because the smaller compressor housing will make a more streetable, spool faster (about 300-500rpm or so), but still make big power... although, on the top end, the 3076 will murder it.
Anyway, enough of my ranting, don't worry about a little white smoke, as we know it's from the turbo seal, just keep an eye on your coolant levels from time to time. If you're planning on running a larger turbo within the next year, I would just get over it, as it really won't matter. Just my $.02
BTW, who did the install? If you did it yourself, you should have invited me
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SpeedRacer
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Downpipe FTL... Have you even had this Speed3 for a month yet and already issues?
Have you even had this Speed3 for a month yet and already issues?2007 Mazdaspeed3 Sport</span>
-Mazdaspeed Short Ram Intake
-HKS SSQV Bov
-Tein S-Tech Springs
-225/40/18 Nitto Neo Gen Tires on RX-8 Wheels
<span style="color:#FF0000">http://www.JTuned.com
-Mazdaspeed Short Ram Intake
-HKS SSQV Bov
-Tein S-Tech Springs
-225/40/18 Nitto Neo Gen Tires on RX-8 Wheels
<span style="color:#FF0000">http://www.JTuned.com
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arctic_blue83
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpeedRacer @ Apr 25 2008, 10:19 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=42988]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
Tommy eh... when are you going to learn to get your hands dirty and install a DP yourself
Honestly buddy, with the way you get bored with horsepower, I don't know if a K04 will satisfy your needs for long Does anyone else make an upgraded turbo for the Speed3/6 yet? Has anyone actually ran a modified K04, and if so, what kind of increases are they seeing over the stock K04? Last I remember, over on 6club, I don't think it was as drastic of a change as I had hope for.
Tommy did it :P and I might just get a reworked K04 turbo instead with better seals. can't afford a GT3071r[/b]
Tommy eh... when are you going to learn to get your hands dirty and install a DP yourself
Honestly buddy, with the way you get bored with horsepower, I don't know if a K04 will satisfy your needs for long
Does anyone else make an upgraded turbo for the Speed3/6 yet? Has anyone actually ran a modified K04, and if so, what kind of increases are they seeing over the stock K04? Last I remember, over on 6club, I don't think it was as drastic of a change as I had hope for.-
SpeedRacer
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SpeedRacer
- Posts: 5030
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its probably not as powerful as I want but its half the price lol... 605 for a reworked k04 or 1500 for a GT3071R
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arctic_blue83 @ Apr 25 2008, 11:03 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=42993]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arctic_blue83 @ Apr 25 2008, 11:03 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=42993]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
Tommy eh... when are you going to learn to get your hands dirty and install a DP yourself
Honestly buddy, with the way you get bored with horsepower, I don't know if a K04 will satisfy your needs for long
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arctic_blue83
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpeedRacer @ Apr 25 2008, 11:35 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=42995]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
Right, I understand that completely... but for $605, I would damn sure want to see results. Although the cool thing about a modded K04 is the stealth appeal... BTW, when they mod it, what exactly are they doing to it? Clipping the turbine? Porting the compressor housing? Maybe stuffing in a larger compressor wheel? I would want to see private party dynos before I spent $605 on an upgraded K04, but that's just me.
its probably not as powerful as I want but its half the price lol... 605 for a reworked k04 or 1500 for a GT3071R[/b]
Right, I understand that completely... but for $605, I would damn sure want to see results. Although the cool thing about a modded K04 is the stealth appeal... BTW, when they mod it, what exactly are they doing to it? Clipping the turbine? Porting the compressor housing? Maybe stuffing in a larger compressor wheel? I would want to see private party dynos before I spent $605 on an upgraded K04, but that's just me.
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SpeedRacer
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High Performance K04 Turbo Build - Mazdaspeed3 and 6
PRICE INCLUDES SHIPPING TO CUSTOMER. ProtegeGarage is proud to offer our reworked turbo solution for the Mazdaspeed3 and Mazdaspeed6. These turbos go under the knife to get a comprehensive rebuild and rework that includes the following;
- Ported and Polished Housings
- Larger Billet Aluminum Lightweight Compressor Wheel
- Clipped Turbine Wheel
- Teardown and rebuild including new seals, new bearings
- Limited Warranty against all part and labor failure
The result? A turbocharger capable of making 350whp efficiently and safely, a turbo that flows 35% more CFM over stock and a turbo that spools much quicker than stock. You'll make more power at stock boost levels, run more efficient horsepower at stock boost levels, and of course make more power at increased boost levels than you would by simply upping the boost of the stock turbo.
Price includes all return freight costs to the customer. Lead time is 10 days from time of order/receipt of turbocharger. We offer the option of using a new turbocharger from Mazdaspeed or using a unit supplied by the customer. Regardless of what turbo is used - every unit will go through the same rebuild process. this ensures every unit will get the same new seals and bearings and the same level of performance.
Port and polish alone can greatly decrease spool-up time and increase boost potential. It decreases spool-up time by speeding up the exhaust gas velocity through the turbine. It gives top-end boost potential by opening up the biggest restriction in the exhaust system which increases the flow through the turbine.
PRICE INCLUDES SHIPPING TO CUSTOMER. ProtegeGarage is proud to offer our reworked turbo solution for the Mazdaspeed3 and Mazdaspeed6. These turbos go under the knife to get a comprehensive rebuild and rework that includes the following;
- Ported and Polished Housings
- Larger Billet Aluminum Lightweight Compressor Wheel
- Clipped Turbine Wheel
- Teardown and rebuild including new seals, new bearings
- Limited Warranty against all part and labor failure
The result? A turbocharger capable of making 350whp efficiently and safely, a turbo that flows 35% more CFM over stock and a turbo that spools much quicker than stock. You'll make more power at stock boost levels, run more efficient horsepower at stock boost levels, and of course make more power at increased boost levels than you would by simply upping the boost of the stock turbo.
Price includes all return freight costs to the customer. Lead time is 10 days from time of order/receipt of turbocharger. We offer the option of using a new turbocharger from Mazdaspeed or using a unit supplied by the customer. Regardless of what turbo is used - every unit will go through the same rebuild process. this ensures every unit will get the same new seals and bearings and the same level of performance.
Port and polish alone can greatly decrease spool-up time and increase boost potential. It decreases spool-up time by speeding up the exhaust gas velocity through the turbine. It gives top-end boost potential by opening up the biggest restriction in the exhaust system which increases the flow through the turbine.
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arctic_blue83
That's a nice claim they have there... but let's not forget some companies claim 10+whp increase from just a cat-back exhaust I'll believe it when I see it... and not some "fudged" numbers on their own personal dyno, but real results, from normal people. Over the years I've become bitter lol, after seeing too many outrageous claims for parts that don't do shit. There was a guy over on 6club that made a "Reworked stock turbo" thread, quite a while ago, and I don't feel like digging through the entire thread, but IIRC, it didn't do much in the power department:
http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=72781
Then again, he didn't have THAT much data, but, you should look into it before spending you hard earned cash.
I'll believe it when I see it... and not some "fudged" numbers on their own personal dyno, but real results, from normal people. Over the years I've become bitter lol, after seeing too many outrageous claims for parts that don't do shit. There was a guy over on 6club that made a "Reworked stock turbo" thread, quite a while ago, and I don't feel like digging through the entire thread, but IIRC, it didn't do much in the power department:http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=72781
Then again, he didn't have THAT much data, but, you should look into it before spending you hard earned cash.
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arctic_blue83
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (firestoned @ Apr 26 2008, 07:49 AM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=43011]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>
Well, there can be... it was kind of odd, in his (Bigg_Tim) dyno, his car seemed to spool slightly faster (maybe due to the new, stronger wastegate spring?!?), but didn't seem to make much more power. In my past experience, I had my MR2 Turbo's CT26 turbine wheel clipped, and it shifted my powerband over to the right. Meaning, it made the "choke point" at a higher RPM, allowing me to hold more boost up top, but adding a bit of turbo lag to the equation.
Here's a pretty good explanation from some of the MR2 Turbo guys:
http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/turbo.htm
"What is happening is that the exhaust gases are being held back by the turbine and, once that starts to happen, the turbine is unable to extract any additional power from the exhaust to push the compressor harder. The only way to produce more power in this situation is to allow the exhaust gases to move more freely across the turbine. There are several ways to do this: 1) get a larger turbine housing that permits more exhaust to flow across the turbine, 2) get a smaller turbine wheel that allows more exhaust to pass across it or 3) "clip" the existing turbine wheel to allow more exhaust to pass through it.
There are very few options (at least in the USA) for changing the turbine housing or wheel. The single entry CT-26 turbine is easily available, but it does not bolt to the stock MR2 turbo elbow, so serious modifications are required to use it. The most widely available alternative is to clip the turbine wheel. Clipping the wheel does reduce its ability to extract energy from the exhaust, but since there is so much exhaust at the higher RPMs where the stock turbine wheel chokes the engine, clipping is a reasonable choice. Dyno runs with a 12 degree clip have shown ~15 rwhp improvements in peak horsepower and moved the choke point from around 5.5K to 6K RPMs. There is a slight increase in turbo lag, but this can be kept to a minimum if the compressor wheel is kept to a modest size (since there is really no need to go with a large compressor wheel as we determined in the 3S-GTE turbo sizing primer)."
I've heard there are negatives to clipping turbine wheels. Is this true?[/b]
Well, there can be... it was kind of odd, in his (Bigg_Tim) dyno, his car seemed to spool slightly faster (maybe due to the new, stronger wastegate spring?!?), but didn't seem to make much more power. In my past experience, I had my MR2 Turbo's CT26 turbine wheel clipped, and it shifted my powerband over to the right. Meaning, it made the "choke point" at a higher RPM, allowing me to hold more boost up top, but adding a bit of turbo lag to the equation.
Here's a pretty good explanation from some of the MR2 Turbo guys:
http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/turbo.htm
"What is happening is that the exhaust gases are being held back by the turbine and, once that starts to happen, the turbine is unable to extract any additional power from the exhaust to push the compressor harder. The only way to produce more power in this situation is to allow the exhaust gases to move more freely across the turbine. There are several ways to do this: 1) get a larger turbine housing that permits more exhaust to flow across the turbine, 2) get a smaller turbine wheel that allows more exhaust to pass across it or 3) "clip" the existing turbine wheel to allow more exhaust to pass through it.
There are very few options (at least in the USA) for changing the turbine housing or wheel. The single entry CT-26 turbine is easily available, but it does not bolt to the stock MR2 turbo elbow, so serious modifications are required to use it. The most widely available alternative is to clip the turbine wheel. Clipping the wheel does reduce its ability to extract energy from the exhaust, but since there is so much exhaust at the higher RPMs where the stock turbine wheel chokes the engine, clipping is a reasonable choice. Dyno runs with a 12 degree clip have shown ~15 rwhp improvements in peak horsepower and moved the choke point from around 5.5K to 6K RPMs. There is a slight increase in turbo lag, but this can be kept to a minimum if the compressor wheel is kept to a modest size (since there is really no need to go with a large compressor wheel as we determined in the 3S-GTE turbo sizing primer)."
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