MS6 1st gear

[S4poor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arctic_blue83 @ Mar 13 2008, 11:43 AM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=32186]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

It's true the Speed3 & Speed6 have the exact same gear ratios, to include final drive ratios & tire diameters. You think those gears are short though, the STI's are even shorter lol. The ratios for a Speed3/6:

1st-4th gears Final Drive ratio is 3.941, ratios are as follows:
1st- 3.538
2nd- 2.238
3rd- 1.535
4th- 1.171

Final drive ratio for 5th & 6th (gears on seperate shaft) is 3.350, gear ratios as follows:
5th- 1.085
6th- 0.853

With 6700rpm redline, & stock 215/45/18's, max speed in each gear should be:

1st- 36.6mph
2nd- 57.9mph
3rd- 84.4mph
4th- 110.6mph
5th- 140.5mph
6th- 178.7mph (<<<Assuming it actually had enough power to reach theoretical top speed)

Although, in stock form, at this altitude, power drops off around 5000rpm, so shifting at redline is almost pointless in all gears except maybe first only to take advantage of torque multiplication.

In contrast, here are an 04-06 STI's gear ratios:

Final drive is 3.90, gears as follows:
1st- 3.636
2nd- 2.375
3rd- 1.761
4th- 1.346
5th- 0.971
6th- 0.756

Top speed in each gear, with the STI's 7000rpm redline (300rpm higher than the Speed6's) & 225/45/17 tires:

1st- 36.7mph (<<<Notice, it's almost the same MPH as the Speed3/6 with a 300rpm higher redline, short gear )
2nd- 56.1mph
3rd- 75.7mph
4th- 99.1mph
5th- 137.3mph
6th- 176.4mph (<<<Again, assuming it had enough power to reach theoretical top speed)



Then again, cars like the Speed3/6 weren't made for drag racing lol. Short, close ratio gears are GREAT for autoX/track events, helping to stay in your powerband coming out of corners.

Hey Brendon, what RPM are you shifting at in 1st? I agree it's a short gear, but if you're short shifting, just getting a tune will help a TON with giving you a much wider (i.e. more usable) powerband, and make 1st more useful.[/b]

Great info.

I am a spirited driver pretty much all the time. No, not that jerk face that goes from right lane, speeds up, to the left lane cutting off some old lady, brakes, passes one car and forces his/her way in.

1st & 2nd I am out of them by 5-5.5k max, it's just losing wayy to much power at that point. 3rd gear on the other hand is certainly the "money gear" in this car. I tend to ride it out until 5.5-5.8k.

5th & 6th haven't proven themselves to me yet. More or less used after 60mph or so. That will all change once this motor can breath and fart better (Intake, DP, exhaust). I am confident that a turbo back will help her breath much better up top?

[arctic_blue83]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MS3_Mafia @ Mar 13 2008, 10:31 AM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=32176]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

Probably the other Speed6 guys can only really chime in... In the Speed3 1st and 2nd are more limited due to the possibility of torque steer in FWD. I don't usually get on it hard in the first 2 gears anyways as my "encounters" occur at 3rd and above from a roll.[/b]

Brings back memories of my old 2nd gen FWD turbo DSM.... it was a torque steering, wheel hopping monster lol. That car's ONLY somewhat strong point was 3rd gear and up pulls lol.

Since owning that car, I've vowed to never own another FWD car lol, or at least not a FWD car that's "performance" oriented.

Since owning my DSM, I've owned 3.5 AWD cars lol. I say 3.5, because even though my MR2 turbo was mid-engine RWD, the heavy rear weight bias allowed that car to launch almost as hard as an AWD. I pulled 1.8x 60ft times in that car, with 225 wide street tires in the back.

After owning 3 AWD cars & 1 mid-engine RWD car, needless to say, I prefer going from a stop Actually, even my Z was pretty good at getting out of the hole, more than good enough to pull any FWD cars that lined up next to it lol. When it comes to "drag racing" (which technically, all races in the sanctioned sport are from a stop), for me: Dig>Roll

That's just me... I guess I'm getting old lol, freeway pulls don't do much for me anymore.

[S4poor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (METHLAB @ Mar 13 2008, 11:39 AM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=32181]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

Now THAT made me laugh![/b]

I'm available for children's parties also ;-)

<holds up the "I work for mods" sign>

[arctic_blue83]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RMSpeed6 @ Mar 13 2008, 10:53 AM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=32192]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

Great info.

I am a spirited driver pretty much all the time. No, not that jerk face that goes from right lane, speeds up, to the left lane cutting off some old lady, brakes, passes one car and forces his/her way in.

1st & 2nd I am out of them by 5-5.5k max, it's just losing wayy to much power at that point. 3rd gear on the other hand is certainly the "money gear" in this car. I tend to ride it out until 5.5-5.8k.

5th & 6th haven't proven themselves to me yet. More or less used after 60mph or so. That will all change once this motor can breath and fart better (Intake, DP, exhaust). I am confident that a turbo back will help her breath much better up top?[/b]

Save your money on the intake, trust me, I did before and after dyno pulls with an AEM CAI vs stock modified airbox (removed silencer & plate at bottom of box), and couldn't hardly see the difference. It looked like I gained *maybe* 2whp with the CAI, not really worth it IMO. Now, as power increases and your stock intake becomes more of a restriction, then upgrade your intake, but at close to stock power levels, it's not needed... unless of course you just like the sound

As far as helping the car breathe better up top, the real problem isn't the hardware, it's the tune. The factory BCS is programmed to taper boost in the upper RPM's. Check out Rich's dyno's of before and after his base map on his Standback:
http://coloradomazdaclub.com/forums/index....ost&p=31933

The second graph is an overlay, of his pull this past Saturday, which was our last dyno day, with the EXACT same hard parts, and the MUCH higher pull is from just a baseline map in his Standback. You can see just how much of a difference just being able to hold more boost, closer to redline helps. He didn't even have a "major" increase in boost, just about 2-4psi, but holding it higher helps in a huge way, for him, he went from 172whp to 222whp, a 50whp gain, almost all in the mid-upper range, just by making boost hold longer.

Although, regardless of basic bolt-ons, like intake, TBE ect, you'll notice, power is still going to drop off around 5700rpm. The car is only equipped with a little K04 turbo from the factory, can't hold peak boost anywhere near redline. Power drops off because the turbo runs out of steam up top. If you want the car to make peak power above 5700rpm, you'll be looking at a turbo upgrade in your future lol, along with a turbo upgrade, unless you want to run out of fuel, you'll also be looking for an upgraded high pressure fuel pump to go with it (not cheap).

A TBE will help with peak power, but will mostly just increase overall power, not necessarily move your powerband over to the right, or at least not move peak power to the right, there's still A LOT of power to be tapped in the upper RPMs after peak power drops off. It will make your powerband a little more broad, mostly due to peak torque coming on sooner.

I actually made a shift point calculator using a stock Speed6 dyno graph over here:
http://coloradomazdaclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=422

^^^Keep in mind, that's specifically for a Speed6 at this altitude, as powerbands are a bit different up here than they are at sea level. Here's what I came up with for a stock Speed6:

1-2 shift= around 5600-5800rpm
2-3 shift= around 5500-5700rpm
3-4 shift= around 5100-5300rpm
4-5 shift= around 5100-5200rpm

I also made another calculator, for my old Speed6 after being modified, seeing as though it was making peak power at a higher RPM than a stock Speed6, here's what I got:

2-3 shift= around 6000-6100
3-4 shift= around 5700-5800
4-5 shift= around 5800

The calculator didn't give me a shift point for my old car's 1-2shift, but I used to wrap it out to about 6200-6300 in 1st. Anyway, you can see with a few mods (most notably engine management with a good tune), you are easily able to wrap all your gears out making them more usable. Trust me, if you can, go with engine management as your first mod. More power. Wider powerband. Ability to squeeze more power out of future mods. You can't go wrong

[S4poor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arctic_blue83 @ Mar 13 2008, 12:25 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=32203]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

Save your money on the intake, trust me, I did before and after dyno pulls with an AEM CAI vs stock modified airbox (removed silencer & plate at bottom of box), and couldn't hardly see the difference. It looked like I gained *maybe* 2whp with the CAI, not really worth it IMO. Now, as power increases and your stock intake becomes more of a restriction, then upgrade your intake, but at close to stock power levels, it's not needed... unless of course you just like the sound

As far as helping the car breathe better up top, the real problem isn't the hardware, it's the tune. The factory BCS is programmed to taper boost in the upper RPM's. Check out Rich's dyno's of before and after his base map on his Standback:
http://coloradomazdaclub.com/forums/index....ost&p=31933

The second graph is an overlay, of his pull this past Saturday, which was our last dyno day, with the EXACT same hard parts, and the MUCH higher pull is from just a baseline map in his Standback. You can see just how much of a difference just being able to hold more boost, closer to redline helps. He didn't even have a "major" increase in boost, just about 2-4psi, but holding it higher helps in a huge way, for him, he went from 172whp to 222whp, a 50whp gain, almost all in the mid-upper range, just by making boost hold longer.

Although, regardless of basic bolt-ons, like intake, TBE ect, you'll notice, power is still going to drop off around 5700rpm. The car is only equipped with a little K04 turbo from the factory, can't hold peak boost anywhere near redline. Power drops off because the turbo runs out of steam up top. If you want the car to make peak power above 5700rpm, you'll be looking at a turbo upgrade in your future lol, along with a turbo upgrade, unless you want to run out of fuel, you'll also be looking for an upgraded high pressure fuel pump to go with it (not cheap).

A TBE will help with peak power, but will mostly just increase overall power, not necessarily move your powerband over to the right, or at least not move peak power to the right, there's still A LOT of power to be tapped in the upper RPMs after peak power drops off. It will make your powerband a little more broad, mostly due to peak torque coming on sooner.

I actually made a shift point calculator using a stock Speed6 dyno graph over here:
http://coloradomazdaclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=422

^^^Keep in mind, that's specifically for a Speed6 at this altitude, as powerbands are a bit different up here than they are at sea level. Here's what I came up with for a stock Speed6:

1-2 shift= around 5600-5800rpm
2-3 shift= around 5500-5700rpm
3-4 shift= around 5100-5300rpm
4-5 shift= around 5100-5200rpm

I also made another calculator, for my old Speed6 after being modified, seeing as though it was making peak power at a higher RPM than a stock Speed6, here's what I got:

2-3 shift= around 6000-6100
3-4 shift= around 5700-5800
4-5 shift= around 5800

The calculator didn't give me a shift point for my old car's 1-2shift, but I used to wrap it out to about 6200-6300 in 1st. Anyway, you can see with a few mods (most notably engine management with a good tune), you are easily able to wrap all your gears out making them more usable. Trust me, if you can, go with engine management as your first mod. More power. Wider powerband. Ability to squeeze more power out of future mods. You can't go wrong [/b]

Again, great and very useful info. Ok, then it's turbo back, and software ;-)

I was reading the Colorado has different emission requirements per counties/towns? True? I'd like to at least gut the cats if they don't, but I am sure like most states they do check it via OBDII.

[RX-7 Chris]

do they even have emision checks up there. I know in the springs they do not.

[S4poor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RX-7 Chris @ Mar 13 2008, 01:09 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=32210]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

do they even have emision checks up there. I know in the springs they do not.[/b]

I have no idea, that's why I'm asking ;-) If they don't the cats are getting "cleaned" this weekend.

[MazdaTom]

Since you bought your car new, I believe you are emissions exempt for 5 years- at least in the Denver area. And by then, who knows if we will still have emissions testing. Up in Loveland, I'm not sure. You're probably still emissions exempt for 5 years.

If anything, don't "gut" the cats. Instead, get a test pipe and keep the factory cat all minty fresh on a shelf in the garage just in case you need it in the future.

[arctic_blue83]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RMSpeed6 @ Mar 13 2008, 12:06 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=32209]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

Again, great and very useful info. Ok, then it's turbo back, and software ;-)

I was reading the Colorado has different emission requirements per counties/towns? True? I'd like to at least gut the cats if they don't, but I am sure like most states they do check it via OBDII.[/b]

IIRC, yes, different counties have different emissions standards, not sure what they're like where you're at in Loveland, but in Colorado, since you just bought the car, you should be good for 2 or 3 years IIRC. As far as OBDII scans go... some of the same tricks for Audi's work for the Speed6... specifically, you can solder in a diode into your rear O2 sensor to avoid a CEL. It's pretty easy, took me about 20 minutes on my Speed6, and never had an emissions related CEL. Can buy the diode (can't remember part number) for under $2 IIRC at Radio Shack.

I will mention though, that you will get more power out of a full downpipe than you will just gutting the cat right behind the turbo, as it will create an expansion chamber right behind the turbo... I know from experience, I gutted my stock cat in the downpipe (the other cat-pipe I just replaced with a test pipe because it only took 15 minutes to swap the cat-pipe/test pipe in), dyno'd before and after, after gutting the cat in the DP right behind the turbo, I only gained 3whp at peak, from 281whp to 284whp, so not much of a gain up top, but between about 2800rpm to 3800rpm I gained about 10whp, so it got a little bit more power in the lower end.

Here's the graph, which is displayed via Speed instead of RPM (there's a story behind that, but really doesn't matter), so you can see gains with gutting the DP:


Now, instead of gutting the 2nd cat, I would just spend the $90-150 on a test pipe, as the stock cat can be swapped back in, in about 15 minutes in your garage. Swapping a full downpipe however will take considerably longer.... especially on a Speed6.... Speed3 is a bit easier as it can be removed from the bottom. Either way, take a look at the Official Exhaust Thread to help understand how your stock exhaust is layed out, it's actually not all that restrictive in stock form:
http://coloradomazdaclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=89

[S4poor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arctic_blue83 @ Mar 13 2008, 01:40 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=32231]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

IIRC, yes, different counties have different emissions standards, not sure what they're like where you're at in Loveland, but in Colorado, since you just bought the car, you should be good for 2 or 3 years IIRC. As far as OBDII scans go... some of the same tricks for Audi's work for the Speed6... specifically, you can solder in a diode into your rear O2 sensor to avoid a CEL. It's pretty easy, took me about 20 minutes on my Speed6, and never had an emissions related CEL. Can buy the diode (can't remember part number) for under $2 IIRC at Radio Shack.

I will mention though, that you will get more power out of a full downpipe than you will just gutting the cat right behind the turbo, as it will create an expansion chamber right behind the turbo... I know from experience, I gutted my stock cat in the downpipe (the other cat-pipe I just replaced with a test pipe because it only took 15 minutes to swap the cat-pipe/test pipe in), dyno'd before and after, after gutting the cat in the DP right behind the turbo, I only gained 3whp at peak, from 281whp to 284whp, so not much of a gain up top, but between about 2800rpm to 3800rpm I gained about 10whp, so it got a little bit more power in the lower end.

Here's the graph, which is displayed via Speed instead of RPM (there's a story behind that, but really doesn't matter), so you can see gains with gutting the DP:


Now, instead of gutting the 2nd cat, I would just spend the $90-150 on a test pipe, as the stock cat can be swapped back in, in about 15 minutes in your garage. Swapping a full downpipe however will take considerably longer.... especially on a Speed6.... Speed3 is a bit easier as it can be removed from the bottom. Either way, take a look at the Official Exhaust Thread to help understand how your stock exhaust is layed out, it's actually not all that restrictive in stock form:
http://coloradomazdaclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=89[/b]

Hmmm, not much of an improvement at all. Ok, cat stays (for now). I am not a fan of test pipes. I had them for a while, but man was it annoying. I ran them only at a track, and maybe two times on the road. Talk about turning heads.

DP then. Does anyone offer say a 200 cell cat for this car?

[S4poor]

Ooops, duplicate response, nothing to see here, move on ;-)

[Rich]

I'll be checking out Buds Muffler eventually. I'm sure they can do anything you're looking for.

Their website is down for the moment, but the url is http://www.budsmuffler.com/ .

[S4poor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rich @ Mar 13 2008, 02:15 PM) [url=index.php?act=findpost&pid=32246]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div>

I'll be checking out Buds Muffler eventually. I'm sure they can do anything you're looking for.

Their website is down for the moment, but the url is http://www.budsmuffler.com/ .[/b]

Works for me ;-)

Hmm in Denver too. I see some nice cars they've worked on. I'm guessing expensive?

[Rich]

Local and excellent reputation. They do work on alot of exotics, tuners, ricers (booo), trucks, and much more. I've even heard that if you don't like the way your exhaust sounds, you can go back and they'll change it, maybe charge just labor or just parts, not sure. That's a rumor so far, but it sure makes me interested to find out.


EDIT: website is working now

[GR-8]

Great Place. Rigth down the street from my fams restraunt. Done exhaust on all my bro's car and my 8. Some say they are pricy but their qualit and work is great. The guy to have the work done to it is Jimmy (Hime) if you can get him. Everyone there is cool and does a great job.

And a side note about their website. If you noticed it hasn't been updated in a 4 years. That's cause the manager who set the site up and ran it quit so no ones been really updating it.